Surprised to see no mention of Operation Condor (other than actions in Chile under Pinochet) which displaced my family in Argentina and destabilized a handful of counties in South America.
Yeah, they even say the list is non-exhaustive (I guess it has to be), but Condor is a big one to miss. Maybe it's because in this case the CIA was more of a conduit for long-standing official policy than a leading force?
"it was fun, fun, fun. Where else could a red-blooded American boy lie, kill and cheat, steal, deceive, rape and pillage with the sanction and blessing of the All-Highest?"
-- George White, commenting on his work on CIA's MK-ULTRA program.
Radio Free Europe — The CIA creates its first major propaganda outlet, Radio Free Europe. Over the next several decades, its broadcasts are so blatantly false that for a time it is considered illegal to publish transcripts of them in the U.S.
Aye, RFE was not "forbidden" in the US because it was propaganda (though it was that), but because it was considered way soft on communist, if not outright socialist. Fulton Lewis (Tucker Carlson's predecessor, essentially) was a big critic of RFE, and a big fan of McCarthy (even after the latter's fall from grace).
Because it was not officially under governmental control (the ties to the CIA would only be revealed after Rampart's investigation released in 1967) it was spared from a McCarthyist witch-hunt, otherwise there's little doubt it would have taken several hatchet hits.
Just logged in to say the same. For millions behind the Iron Curtain, it was a breath of fresh air, it was like a ray of hope. It was liberating just hear someone speaking publicly things you could not. You could write long stories about that.
Ironically, the entire book this list is taken from is available for free from the CIA website, owing to it being part of the trove of books found during the raid on Osama Bin Laden's compound:
I would nightly recommend ”The Jakarta Method”, published last year, and a very personal telling of the CIA’s support of the mass-murder program in Indonesia in the 1960’s (and then how this tactic was reused in a few other coups in Latin America when things were dangerously close to becoming too democratic).
The involvement in fictional media is pretty out in the open at this point.
Here's John Krasinski, star of Amazon's Jack Ryan series, talking about how he was welcomed at the CIA and "we should thank them every day": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Yg6y6bFeM
What are the aims of the CIA? Are all the divisions within the CIA rowing in the same direction? Is it possible there are multiple CIA operations in direct conflict with each other, without any awareness of the others' involvement? What are CIA strategy sessions like? How far out are they planning, or do they tend to be weirdly reactionary?
>1979: Afghanistan — The Soviets invade Afghanistan. The CIA immediately begins supplying arms to any faction willing to fight the occupying Soviets. Such indiscriminate arming means that when the Soviets leave Afghanistan, civil war will erupt. Also, fanatical Muslim extremists now possess state-of-the-art weaponry. One of these is Sheik Abdel Rahman, who will become involved in the World Trade Center bombing in New York.
In what way can the first 4 items in the list be considered atrocities? And how can they be considered _CIA_ atrocities given they occur before the formation of the CIA?
The fifth (Operation Paperclip) was conducted by US Army Intelligence.
I gave up at that point. The list is obviously a product of its time - before the explosion of the web. I actually remember when this sort of list was popular - similar lists often appeared and re-appeared on Usenet or were circulated widely by email.
These days it's just too easy to factcheck stuff wikipedia/google/etc. so after checking out the first few items, the list comes across like a sort of Gish gallop.
To be clear, I'm not defending the CIA or its actions here - but this particular list hasn't aged well.
and yet, the machine churns on. Just wanted to put a reminder here that the Government Accountability Office (GAO) has not been able to audit the CIA for over 40 years [0]. Evil likes to be unaccountable, and it's gotten just that. How much more blood will we allow to spill as an American populace before we demand an end to the CIA? This list focuses mainly on foreign engagements by the agency. The domestic activities by the CIA are vast and unaccounted for, bordering on the unimaginable.
We (Americans) have been living in lies, living in shadows, living in death. There is no tangible difference between the acronyms USA and CIA. We have been sold to the devil, and we've made him our master.
> We (Americans) have been living in lies, living in shadows, living in death. There is no tangible difference between the acronyms USA and CIA. We have been sold to the devil, and we've made him our master.
Sometimes propaganda is more powerful if delivered in a more neutral and objective tone. Also, historical accounts are more believable when supported by sources and evidence. Otherwise it feels a bit one sided.
The CIA has certainly done some weird and evil shit. Slanted writing like this isn't going to persuade anyone, though.
Ironically the CIA themselves is very good at writing propaganda with a neutral and objective tone. For example Radio Free Asia is generally considered neutral and objective despite its ties to the CIA.
It's power seeking to perpetuate itself. It more or less works the same in every part of the world and every country and always has. Thinking otherwise is a bit naive.
The culture we lost — Secretary of State Henry Stimson refuses to endorse a code-breaking operation, saying, "Gentlemen do not read each other’s mail."
Stimson was a moron. Sure, being polite and respectful of other people's mail/privacy is a socially responsible thing to do, but if EVERYBODY else is reading other people's mail, then it puts you at a serious disadvantage when you choose not to.
Last year, I read Tim Weiner's devastating book, "Legacy of Ashes: History of the CIA". It goes into detail about many of the events on this timeline.
I thought the book was a bit overly hostile -- surely the CIA isn't that incompetent -- and in looking for a rebuttal I found this on the CIA web site written by the "CIA History Staff": https://www.cia.gov/static/49561e0c75f85cc633453c8d40888e94/... . I found this a weak argument against the points made by Weiner but its interesting to read what the CIA thinks of its own history.
One of my ideas over the last decade has been to create a website of resources to demonstrate to the world that USA should be an example of a country no one else should aspire to be. Unfortunately, I never got the time or patience to create it. Seeing this is motivating - I need to find that time after all.
The awkward thing is that there is always a dissenting or misaimed fandom who sees an action no matter how horrific as a good thing. "They oppressed everyone don't do it." is read as some as "They have power over all if you do it nobody could stop you."
Interesting idea, but I don't see why you should single the USA out, other than by the fact that it's the most powerful nation that declassifies a certain amount of information about itself. Every powerful nation has had some involvement in election interference, propaganda, wars, slavery, torture, and so on.
The US spent the first 100 years not living up to it’s own ideals. When we started figuring that out, we stopped caring about them altogether. It’s as if things like constitutions and conventions exist to provide the illusion of legitimacy to systems that ignore them.
It's misleading to put some of those CIA actions into 1979 in the timeline, since Carter was guardedly supportive of the new governments in El Salvador and Nicaragua, and the actions against them were undertaken by the subsequent Reagan administration.
[+] [-] vector_spaces|4 years ago|reply
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor
[+] [-] WaxProlix|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pmoriarty|4 years ago|reply
-- George White, commenting on his work on CIA's MK-ULTRA program.
https://www.sfweekly.com/news/operation-midnight-climax-how-...
[+] [-] matheusmoreira|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CalChris|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] masklinn|4 years ago|reply
Because it was not officially under governmental control (the ties to the CIA would only be revealed after Rampart's investigation released in 1967) it was spared from a McCarthyist witch-hunt, otherwise there's little doubt it would have taken several hatchet hits.
[+] [-] dvfjsdhgfv|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lucian1900|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] legitster|4 years ago|reply
https://www.cia.gov/library/abbottabad-compound/13/130AEF153...
[+] [-] nextstep|4 years ago|reply
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jakarta_Method
[+] [-] ed25519FUUU|4 years ago|reply
1. What is the CIA involvement in mainstream US media? How and why do they shape American perspective via the news?[1]
2. Why are so many (former? current?) CIA agents running for congress?[2]
3. To what extent and purpose is the CIA spying domestically on American citizens and the US congress?[3]
4. What was the true purpose of "fusion cells", where the CIA was partnered with the FBI for local law enforcement?[4]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
[2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-2...
[3] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/a-brief...
[4] https://twitter.com/fool_nelson/status/1305599303906406402?l...
[+] [-] luffapi|4 years ago|reply
https://www.amazon.com/Weird-Scenes-Inside-Canyon-Laurel/dp/...
I don’t think is anywhere near conclusive, but it’s definitely plausible given the information he lays out.
Fun fact: Jim Morrison’s dad literally started the Vietnam War when he led the fleet that fabricated the Gulf of Tonkin Incident:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident
[+] [-] AndrewBissell|4 years ago|reply
Here's John Krasinski, star of Amazon's Jack Ryan series, talking about how he was welcomed at the CIA and "we should thank them every day": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Yg6y6bFeM
A good article on how the writers for Homeland closely collaborated with representatives from the US intelligence community: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/home...
[+] [-] jjgreen|4 years ago|reply
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/modern-art-was-cia-...
[+] [-] truffdog|4 years ago|reply
The biggest and most obvious way the CIA impacts media is through leaks to journalists, though.
[+] [-] peder|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] trefoiled|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RocketOne|4 years ago|reply
>1979: Afghanistan — The Soviets invade Afghanistan. The CIA immediately begins supplying arms to any faction willing to fight the occupying Soviets. Such indiscriminate arming means that when the Soviets leave Afghanistan, civil war will erupt. Also, fanatical Muslim extremists now possess state-of-the-art weaponry. One of these is Sheik Abdel Rahman, who will become involved in the World Trade Center bombing in New York.
The US literally armed its own enemies.
[+] [-] pope_meat|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] derriz|4 years ago|reply
The fifth (Operation Paperclip) was conducted by US Army Intelligence.
I gave up at that point. The list is obviously a product of its time - before the explosion of the web. I actually remember when this sort of list was popular - similar lists often appeared and re-appeared on Usenet or were circulated widely by email.
These days it's just too easy to factcheck stuff wikipedia/google/etc. so after checking out the first few items, the list comes across like a sort of Gish gallop.
To be clear, I'm not defending the CIA or its actions here - but this particular list hasn't aged well.
[+] [-] luffapi|4 years ago|reply
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mena_Intermountain_Municipal...
[+] [-] johnknowles|4 years ago|reply
We (Americans) have been living in lies, living in shadows, living in death. There is no tangible difference between the acronyms USA and CIA. We have been sold to the devil, and we've made him our master.
[0] https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-01-975t.pdf
[+] [-] 2OEH8eoCRo0|4 years ago|reply
Your last sentence is also needlessly inflammatory.
[+] [-] StreamBright|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zepto|4 years ago|reply
What are you talking about? Every country has spy agencies and almost every country conducts covert operations.
[+] [-] justin66|4 years ago|reply
At night, the ice weasels come.
[+] [-] bayesian_horse|4 years ago|reply
The CIA has certainly done some weird and evil shit. Slanted writing like this isn't going to persuade anyone, though.
[+] [-] luffapi|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] porphyra|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] legitster|4 years ago|reply
It is completely plausible that the CIA has done really evil things, but with honest intentions of stabilizing regions.
[+] [-] seniorThrowaway|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anonymousiam|4 years ago|reply
Stimson was a moron. Sure, being polite and respectful of other people's mail/privacy is a socially responsible thing to do, but if EVERYBODY else is reading other people's mail, then it puts you at a serious disadvantage when you choose not to.
[+] [-] AtlasBarfed|4 years ago|reply
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2010/11/3/us-trained-cart...
[+] [-] reddog|4 years ago|reply
I thought the book was a bit overly hostile -- surely the CIA isn't that incompetent -- and in looking for a rebuttal I found this on the CIA web site written by the "CIA History Staff": https://www.cia.gov/static/49561e0c75f85cc633453c8d40888e94/... . I found this a weak argument against the points made by Weiner but its interesting to read what the CIA thinks of its own history.
[+] [-] mssundaram|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ccsnags|4 years ago|reply
Edit: i thought this was obviously a joke. I misspelled a word to give it less credibility.
[+] [-] ChrisArchitect|4 years ago|reply
look at all the wikipedia article mentions and additions in this comment thread.
Instead of posting this, how about reference this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_by_the...
[+] [-] sneak|4 years ago|reply
This is one of many reasons why I don't use Twitch and avoid using AWS and amazon.com whenever possible.
Please read this webpage in full before you enrich those who collaborate with this organization.
If you work at AWS, you should consider quitting. If you are applying to jobs, you should skip Amazon. AWS are the CIA's sysadmins.
[+] [-] radmuzom|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mc32|4 years ago|reply
(I think almost any country with our resources would project their vision vigorously to maintain stability)
That’s to say were China to emerge as the world power, I don’t think they would take pause and just let things be.
[+] [-] Nasrudith|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ravenstine|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ccsnags|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] refurb|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway6734|4 years ago|reply
Most of Europe has shown that it can't be trusted with power. Same with most of Asia.
The past 80 years under pax americana have seen the greatest reduction in global poverty in history.
[+] [-] visiblink|4 years ago|reply
It's misleading to put some of those CIA actions into 1979 in the timeline, since Carter was guardedly supportive of the new governments in El Salvador and Nicaragua, and the actions against them were undertaken by the subsequent Reagan administration.