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Coders Who Don't Job Interview: Zed Shaw

106 points| barce | 14 years ago |codebelay.com | reply

76 comments

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[+] zedshaw|14 years ago|reply
I'll add one more thing. People ask me about getting work now that I'm "famous", and I usually just tell them this:

Before I was famous I'd have to scrounge around for shitty jobs. Now they just come to me.

Truth is, I still interview, I still do the stupid coding quizzes, I still send my resume, not because I have to, but because I want to be taken seriously and treated fairly with the understanding that I got hired because I know what I'm doing. Not because of my "fame".

After that, the jobs are pretty uninspiring these days and while the work environment may be pleasant, I rarely find any place that's interested in taking a big risk with my ideas.

[+] mgkimsal|14 years ago|reply
"Before I was famous I'd have to scrounge around for shitty jobs. Now they just come to me."

Do you mean shitty jobs just come to you? Or better stuff? Couldn't tell if you were trying to be funny there or not.

[+] speckledjim|14 years ago|reply
Are you seriously using the words "fame" and "famous" without sarcasm there?

Perhaps "well known within certain programming communities" would be more apt.

[+] pavel_lishin|14 years ago|reply
Can we make this not happen after double-clicking text?

http://i.imgur.com/YL9Xd.png

[+] sedev|14 years ago|reply
Dear everyone who ever gave me shit on HN for browsing the web with JavaScript turned off by default: please see the above image. Without NoScript and ad blocking, the Internet is broken because site owners can fuck up basic UI/UX assumptions.
[+] heyrhett|14 years ago|reply
How informative and useful that you now know the word "didn't" was in a Billy Joel song!

I've always thought that people who chose to use hypertext this way were seriously missing the point.

[+] shaggyfrog|14 years ago|reply
What script caused that? I want to add its domain to my JavaScript Blacklist extension.
[+] barce|14 years ago|reply
Ya, I'm bringing it up with the Apture folks.
[+] KuraFire|14 years ago|reply
We’ve taken it into consideration. It's designed for terms one is not familiar with, so “didn't” is kind of unnecessary.

As a note here, though (also for others), it doesn’t pop up just from double-clicking text; you only get a small “Learn more” after that, and the popup only shows up if you then click the Learn More button.

[+] arctangent|14 years ago|reply
"I think I also tend to pick off the lower level work because most of my original ideas are usually too weird for a professional setting."

I'd like to see some clarification on this. A lot of the work I do (inside a large organisation) seems to involve inventive approaches to problems. Maybe not like writing new web servers, but certainly the kind of non-routine stuff that keeps a hacker happy. I don't (often) do this just for fun - there's simply not enough time to solve problems the boring way.

"Professionally though, inspiration is for amateurs and I just do my work."

I'd also like to see some clarification on this. Is Zed saying that it's wrong to take a novel approach to one's work? Or that maybe it's better to just do things the way you're told and save the creative juices for personal endeavours? I might just be mis-reading this completely. Any help much appreciated...

[+] zedshaw|14 years ago|reply
I try really hard to get things done at work, sometimes that means doing shit work so someone else can have a good time coding something interesting. That's all there is to it. That doesn't mean I don't try to do the shit work in an efficient novel way, it just means what I'm willing to work on isn't necessarily glamorous.

As for the second comment, I'm just saying that if you have to wait around for inspiration before you can do anything then you're just an amateur. I may not be as into what I do without inspiration, but in my day job I can just do what I need without waiting around for a muse to strike me with Thor's hammer. I find people who walk around screaming that they "MUST BE PASSIONATE!" are either deluded, stupid, or just prima donnas who can't sit down and do the damn job. Personally I'd take someone objective and little critical over some passionate Yes-Man.

Now, that's at work, where usually I'm just slinging code for someone else to make money off of and my interest is really only in doing my job well, not in what I'm doing.

[+] shazow|14 years ago|reply
Does nobody care about personality and team fit?

You can be great on paper and by reputation, but turns out Zed and I don't jive.

Edit: Interviewing can reveal these things, for both the applicant and the hiring company.

[+] jacques_chester|14 years ago|reply
I'm not sure why you're being downvoted.

I admire Zed. His angry rants make me laugh. His ability to pump out decent code is brobdingnagian. He's usually right.

But of course, part of what makes his rants so funny is that even the minimum niceties are dispensed with. I'm not sure if that means Zed can be inserted into a team of ordinary folk without wasteful drama from people with hurt feelings.

I understand Zed's work mostly takes the form of freelancing. That's probably the best fit.

[+] zedshaw|14 years ago|reply
They do, and people who think I'm just a dick, rather than see the truth (which is that I'm a dick to people who treat me and other people like dicks), aren't the kinds of people I want to work with.
[+] heyrhett|14 years ago|reply
Other creative professions have this phenomenon too. In film, there are actors who audition for parts, and actors who have roles pitched to them.

Everyone knows that being famous for your work requires a combination of talent, luck, and hard work, but everyone can't be Zed Shaw. There isn't room. It would be like telling actors "Just do what Jim Carrey did."

[+] sedev|14 years ago|reply
Of course we can't all be Picasso (the role was filled by some guy who was hanging out in Paris at the right time), but that is no reason not to try. Trying to raise the collective professional standard is a Good Thing. I think more people should try to emulate Zed Shaw in terms of coding competence (there are already enough people trying to emulate him in terms of 'surly fellow who gets away with being a tremendous asshole on account of being a tremendous asshole who's usually right').
[+] kiba|14 years ago|reply
You don't have to be famous or uber skilled to not have to be interviewed.

I got my first job a month ago simply by being knowing someone on IRC.

[+] revorad|14 years ago|reply
Everyone can't be Zed Shaw or Jim Carey, not because there isn't room, but because it's bloody hard.
[+] unbracketed|14 years ago|reply
I’d also say that going back to school is a good way to update your life and change your profession. I’m a firm believer in getting government student loans and using them to go to school. They’re cheap, low interest, and the US government is usually very nice about letting you pay them back. I’m not so sure about other places around the world though.

Another take on the student loan system: http://consumerist.com/2010/09/student-loans-gateway-drug-to...

[+] nightski|14 years ago|reply
Notice how he says government loans. That I agree with. The private loan system is another beast altogether, one I am dealing with personally. Fortunately with our profession it is not hard to pay off loans.
[+] varikin|14 years ago|reply
One thing I think should be added is that to participate in the community. It can be working on projects—your own or other open source projects, being active on IRC and mailing lists, or going to local user groups. I like to believe I got my current job by starting a Python user group. It helped me network and find where the jobs in the area where.
[+] moondowner|14 years ago|reply
> "I first heard of him from a video Leah Culver linked to on a talk that Zed gave, “The ACL is dead.”"

I knew I wasn't the only one.