I expect future generations to harbor a unique and refined fire of hatred for our current plastics obsession. In no particular order:
- We extract oil from the ground, transport it thousands of miles to a factory, build precursors, transport those thousands of miles to other factories, build plastic containers, transport those to yet other places for use, fill them, use them for 10 minutes, discard them, and then transport them tens or hundreds of miles to a landfill (can't recycle them, they've got food waste... or you use a bunch of water to clean them for recycling, but see below). This is insane in any reasonable world.
- Plastic recycling is... a polite lie, at best, and more realistically oil company {marketing, propaganda} at work. Some plastics, some of the time, are recyclable a few times to build a high cost, crap material (and relatively few people want to pay more for worse material to work with). Most plastics, most of the time, are junk and somewhere between "not worth the cost" and "technically not possible" to recycle. We used to (as western nations) stuff plastics in a container, ship it to China, and count it as recycled as soon as it left the port regardless of the result. Now, with China having decided that this was stupid, we ship it to whoever will take it, count it as recycled, and then wonder why we find a ton of plastics in the atmosphere and oceans.
- As we learn more about plastics, most of the stuff that makes them work turns out to be some level of "somewhat toxic to some life" and "really violently toxic to all life." Most of the really nasty stuff simply doesn't degrade in a useful span, so will be with everyone else on the planet, for somewhere between "an awfully long time" and "the remaining span of humans on the planet."
But, hey, super convenient for a couple decades! Can't blame us for making it, right? I mean, there was profit involved - and, more than just profit, convenience. Such profit! Much convenience. All plastics!
I don't mind, quite as much, "durable plastics" that are intended to last for a long while. But the entire disposable, super soft plastic ecosystem? This is going to be very, very hated in centuries to come. If it's not sterilized all humans by then. :/
Plastics that consumers end up being responsible for the end-of-life, those need to go. And if consumers need to have it, at least that plastic-like-material must be fully biodegradable, without nano or toxic byproducts or leftovers.
Plastics that are used for health/industry/logistics, I think those are fine.
At the very least, lets stop doing insane stuff like putting BPA on receipts...
Non-recyclable plastic should be banned immediately. The fact that we let it persist is ridiculous. I don't care how much costs go up.
We should also limit the types of plastic to a handful, and they should all be recyclable in-country. If we can't recycle it, ban it. Let it get replaced by glass or metal. Again, I don't care how expensive it is. Just like climate change prevention, it's something that needs to happen otherwise we are killing humanity.
A period where advances in chemistry and materials outpaced cultural and administrative development. Early on, Capitalism was proven to be the most productive economic system in the war-time economy, but this posed a problem once World War 2 had ended. Western industry pivoted from war spending to consumer spending and the post war period ushered in rapid improvements in quality of life for average members of society.
Unfortunately those gains came at the expense of the environment and are being paid for by the current generation and generations to come. While it took only a matter of years to transition from a war driven economy to one based on consumer goods, it took nearly a century (possibly more) to transition towards sustainable methods of production and consumption.
The only way to end industries that profit off externalities is by imposing Pigovian Taxes AND redistributing the proceeds back to the people. That last part is important to avoid Yellow Vest protests, while making the industry non-competitive with the alternatives:
Non-Biodegradeable Plastics
Factory Farming
Fossil Fuels
Our cars are all built to be locked into the hydrocarbon monopoly. Why not open up to a free market of energy generation with solar, wind, geothermal and nuclear like all our other appliances?
Carbon Tax and Dividend bipartisan proposal, and Alaska’s Permanent Fund, are the two most “successful” examples so far. We need MORE!
Regulating and managing consumer chemicals after the fact is no longer sufficient, and in some cases counter-productive.
For example, bans on long-chain PFASs (Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances) has meant industry has just switched to short-chain PFASs, which are more difficult to filter out of water:
We need to establish a whitelist of acceptable compounds and force industry to work within that for anything that will shed into the environment, be exposed to foodstuffs, or be worn by humans.
This is why I dislike the current version of 3D printing. All it creates is cheap, poor quality plastic objects more and more. We need organic (recyclable) material that can be manipulated, printed and available just like plastic.
PLA is biodegradable.
For the things I print, I usually smooth them with PVA as it's biodegradable. As far as pigments go, I have no clue what's in most commercial stuff I think they're the main caveat for truly biodegradable 3d printing.
What freightening is that as oil as an energy sound declines so will the price of oil and therefore the price of plastic.
Whether you believe in humans being the driving force behind climate change or not, the fact is oil and its byproducts generate pollution. Pollution that's harmful to living things.
[+] [-] Syonyk|4 years ago|reply
- We extract oil from the ground, transport it thousands of miles to a factory, build precursors, transport those thousands of miles to other factories, build plastic containers, transport those to yet other places for use, fill them, use them for 10 minutes, discard them, and then transport them tens or hundreds of miles to a landfill (can't recycle them, they've got food waste... or you use a bunch of water to clean them for recycling, but see below). This is insane in any reasonable world.
- Plastic recycling is... a polite lie, at best, and more realistically oil company {marketing, propaganda} at work. Some plastics, some of the time, are recyclable a few times to build a high cost, crap material (and relatively few people want to pay more for worse material to work with). Most plastics, most of the time, are junk and somewhere between "not worth the cost" and "technically not possible" to recycle. We used to (as western nations) stuff plastics in a container, ship it to China, and count it as recycled as soon as it left the port regardless of the result. Now, with China having decided that this was stupid, we ship it to whoever will take it, count it as recycled, and then wonder why we find a ton of plastics in the atmosphere and oceans.
- As we learn more about plastics, most of the stuff that makes them work turns out to be some level of "somewhat toxic to some life" and "really violently toxic to all life." Most of the really nasty stuff simply doesn't degrade in a useful span, so will be with everyone else on the planet, for somewhere between "an awfully long time" and "the remaining span of humans on the planet."
But, hey, super convenient for a couple decades! Can't blame us for making it, right? I mean, there was profit involved - and, more than just profit, convenience. Such profit! Much convenience. All plastics!
I don't mind, quite as much, "durable plastics" that are intended to last for a long while. But the entire disposable, super soft plastic ecosystem? This is going to be very, very hated in centuries to come. If it's not sterilized all humans by then. :/
[+] [-] genericone|4 years ago|reply
Plastics that are used for health/industry/logistics, I think those are fine.
At the very least, lets stop doing insane stuff like putting BPA on receipts...
[+] [-] ping_pong|4 years ago|reply
We should also limit the types of plastic to a handful, and they should all be recyclable in-country. If we can't recycle it, ban it. Let it get replaced by glass or metal. Again, I don't care how expensive it is. Just like climate change prevention, it's something that needs to happen otherwise we are killing humanity.
[+] [-] kenjackson|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maxerickson|4 years ago|reply
Is the theory that the government (or some other entity) was paying those companies to pay to ship the plastic to China for no reason?
(It's very true that most plastics aren't worth much for recycling, but there's considerable use of recycled PETE and HDPE, #1 and #2.)
[+] [-] wefarrell|4 years ago|reply
The petroleum age:
A period where advances in chemistry and materials outpaced cultural and administrative development. Early on, Capitalism was proven to be the most productive economic system in the war-time economy, but this posed a problem once World War 2 had ended. Western industry pivoted from war spending to consumer spending and the post war period ushered in rapid improvements in quality of life for average members of society.
Unfortunately those gains came at the expense of the environment and are being paid for by the current generation and generations to come. While it took only a matter of years to transition from a war driven economy to one based on consumer goods, it took nearly a century (possibly more) to transition towards sustainable methods of production and consumption.
[+] [-] jchw|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] EGreg|4 years ago|reply
Non-Biodegradeable Plastics
Factory Farming
Fossil Fuels
Our cars are all built to be locked into the hydrocarbon monopoly. Why not open up to a free market of energy generation with solar, wind, geothermal and nuclear like all our other appliances?
Carbon Tax and Dividend bipartisan proposal, and Alaska’s Permanent Fund, are the two most “successful” examples so far. We need MORE!
[+] [-] ArkanExplorer|4 years ago|reply
For example, bans on long-chain PFASs (Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances) has meant industry has just switched to short-chain PFASs, which are more difficult to filter out of water:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.estlett.0c00004
We need to establish a whitelist of acceptable compounds and force industry to work within that for anything that will shed into the environment, be exposed to foodstuffs, or be worn by humans.
[+] [-] forgotmypw17|4 years ago|reply
How many pollutants do you voluntarily introduce into your own environment-habitat?
(And for every pound you buy, several pounds of byproducts are shed during production.)
[+] [-] suyash|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tfolbrecht|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dukeofdoom|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Choco31415|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chiefalchemist|4 years ago|reply
Whether you believe in humans being the driving force behind climate change or not, the fact is oil and its byproducts generate pollution. Pollution that's harmful to living things.