If you don't like the inflation of the governments currency, just build your own. (Thats the libertarian argument when it comes to everything else privatized, e.g. roads, no?)
>If you don't like the inflation of the governments currency, just build your own
So crypto? Besides, it's not really an opt-out because you're still obligated to pay taxes, and network effects make it very hard for you to actually opt out.
money will just disappear at some point, it already lost all of its meaning, it is not used to share services anymore
money is used to empower the wrong people, take a look at our society, people who invest live a better life than people who take care of our elderly people, worse they live a better life than the people who are cleaning our cities
worse, they live a better life than researchers, and scientists
Wow. Isn't that a bit extreme? I don't think you fully appreciate how "normal life" depends on having a third party being obliged to do something for you.
Your libertarian success is predicated on a functioning society, with a certain level of peace and mutual trust etc.
History of civilization shows various ways to achieving various degrees of internal peace and mutual trust required for free enterprise to flourish, and all had some form of "obligation" baked in (religious or secular rule)
In the 20th century UBI was mostly supported by libertarians, for example Charles Murray and Milton Friedman. They called in Negative Income Tax, but mathematically it's the same thing.
It's smarter and more efficient than the system we have now, especially if it's funded by land value taxes.
That's exactly what it is. Privileges and handouts in exchange for obedience and votes (at least nationally - the EU has gone full CCP with their irreplaceable bureaucrats).
> through taxes and inflation, which is the worst kind of tax.
100% correct. Most EU members have official debt that equals GDP (some are worse) and they probably figure they have another 50% of GDP to borrow.
Now is also a great opportunity to transition from Covid 19 handouts to UBI (first experimentally and then - after EU-funded scientists discover it works really well - on an ever growing scale).
If they spend 5% of GDP per year on UBI, that can go on for a decade or longer before everything collapses.
Well, in the U.S. we're practically out of capitalist ways to subjugate people to the point that we have people being paid pennies an hour to work in overcrowded, for-profit, prisons. Likewise, one of the biggest, and most brutal, prison systems in the world, which just so happens to be disproportionally full of people who's ancestors were slaves.
So, let's try some new forms of subjugation at least as you'd have to be incredibly creative to find new ways of capitalist oppression.
>UBI, just another socialist way to subjugate people.
Seems preferable to endless wage slavery at the behest of unaccountable corporations run by billionaire oligarchs.
If the choice is between driving a delivery truck and having to piss in a bottle versus a UBI and upsetting libertarians, I know which one I'd choose.
>When a right requires an obligation to do something by a third party through the use of force by the state, then it is not a right, it's a priviledge.
What "privilege" are you referring to here?
>How are you going to pay for the UBI? through taxes and inflation, which is the worst kind of tax.
Part of the allure of a UBI is that society could do away with separate welfare programs and such, which is probably more efficient from a reduction of bureaucracy standpoint, since you no longer have to have that silo in your government.
If the choice is between driving a truck (even with the bottle) and the "Maduro diet" in Venezuela, a lot of us would probably pick the truck and the bottle. The failure mode of socialism is really unpleasant. "Wage slavery" doesn't come close.
The argument you should be making is why Europe's UBI proposal won't wind up at Venezuela. Calling capitalism "wage slavery" isn't how you do that.
j-pb|4 years ago
gruez|4 years ago
So crypto? Besides, it's not really an opt-out because you're still obligated to pay taxes, and network effects make it very hard for you to actually opt out.
yeslibertarian|4 years ago
Shadonototro|4 years ago
money is used to empower the wrong people, take a look at our society, people who invest live a better life than people who take care of our elderly people, worse they live a better life than the people who are cleaning our cities
worse, they live a better life than researchers, and scientists
money is a dumb thing, nowadays
ithkuil|4 years ago
Your libertarian success is predicated on a functioning society, with a certain level of peace and mutual trust etc.
History of civilization shows various ways to achieving various degrees of internal peace and mutual trust required for free enterprise to flourish, and all had some form of "obligation" baked in (religious or secular rule)
akvadrako|4 years ago
It's smarter and more efficient than the system we have now, especially if it's funded by land value taxes.
Proven|4 years ago
> through taxes and inflation, which is the worst kind of tax.
100% correct. Most EU members have official debt that equals GDP (some are worse) and they probably figure they have another 50% of GDP to borrow.
Now is also a great opportunity to transition from Covid 19 handouts to UBI (first experimentally and then - after EU-funded scientists discover it works really well - on an ever growing scale).
If they spend 5% of GDP per year on UBI, that can go on for a decade or longer before everything collapses.
nr2x|4 years ago
So, let's try some new forms of subjugation at least as you'd have to be incredibly creative to find new ways of capitalist oppression.
heavyset_go|4 years ago
_ofdw|4 years ago
Seems preferable to endless wage slavery at the behest of unaccountable corporations run by billionaire oligarchs.
If the choice is between driving a delivery truck and having to piss in a bottle versus a UBI and upsetting libertarians, I know which one I'd choose.
>When a right requires an obligation to do something by a third party through the use of force by the state, then it is not a right, it's a priviledge.
What "privilege" are you referring to here?
>How are you going to pay for the UBI? through taxes and inflation, which is the worst kind of tax.
Part of the allure of a UBI is that society could do away with separate welfare programs and such, which is probably more efficient from a reduction of bureaucracy standpoint, since you no longer have to have that silo in your government.
AnimalMuppet|4 years ago
The argument you should be making is why Europe's UBI proposal won't wind up at Venezuela. Calling capitalism "wage slavery" isn't how you do that.
twen_ty|4 years ago
AnimalMuppet|4 years ago