As someone who teaches Human-Computer Interaction in a CS program, I find it odd that there are no HCI topics on that list. Especially, when they say it's a "complete education in computer science". Perhaps it's a matter of tradition etc., but some basic knowledge about HCI might be useful ;)
I'm not surprised, but still, Bush, Licklider, Engelbart, Weiser, Kay, Victor etc. are all about HCI...
A lot of comments are dismissing this because it doesn't provide a credential upon completion. But you don't get mad at a hammer for not putting staples in paper, nor get mad at a stapler for not putting nails in wood. This is a tool that gives empowers you to educate yourself, not a tool that gives you a credential.
As someone with a deep love of learning and knowledge, I am delighted that this exists.
A lot of comments are dismissing this because it doesn't provide a credential upon completion.
Obvious solution would be decoupling teaching and certification. Actually, having both performed by the same institutions seems like a conflict of interest.
A lot of comments are dismissing this because it doesn't provide a credential upon completion.
That’s rich considering how quickly (and aggressively) software developers dismiss all other forms of credentials (licensing, certifications, advanced degrees), especially on HN.
Speaking of the subject, if someone DOES want a credential and already knows a lot of CS, are there good online courses that provide sped up process? I have been programming since 20 years ago, am a lead developer at a large company, but have no degree. Sadly some companies like Google do require it to even consider submissions, so I wonder if I should enroll an online course just for the paper.
Exactly. I think if you're the sort of person who can self teach yourself an entire CS degree in your spare time, that's going to look very good on your CV, accreditation or not.
The issue would be getting past the automated CV checkers or recruiters that will throw out any applicants that don't have a certain grade
I think the reason fo this emphasis is that there are already plenty of resources for self-learning CS. Indeed a lot of the mainstream universities make their course materials available. The bit that is not typically available is the credential, so if we truly want to disrupt the edcuation model then that's the bit that needs to be solved.
Do you actually get a degree at the end? Or is it a lot of work that you put in which will be ignored by recruiters that "just get too many applications" and filter by college education?
If you already have a degree but it's not CS (perhaps it's mathematics or electrical engineering), then these courses are perfect. I credit a lot of my programming skills to Stanford's courses even though that is not where my degrees are from.
Was disappointed to see that an open source education project requires one to accept the terms of service of a proprietary, centralized, and privacy adverse service like Discord to be able to communicate with others.
Network effect. I don't like it neither. Many open source projects adopt Discord now, making it harder to be part of their community if you want to avoid non-free software / closed networks. (What next? Open source projects hosted on a non-free social network? /s)
From the outside, this is an impressive phenomenon, where in a very short time you notice everybody suddenly going to Discord and you don't understand what's happening / what's the deal.
Nand2Tetris and Roughgarden, looks like an excellent syllabus tbh.
Unfortunately it's pretty worthless without a paper degree. It's cool that Finland is now having open online registration for Finnish citizens to do online courses like https://fullstackopen.com/en/
It's a shame something like that doesn't exist in every country.
In Finland you can usually complete first year of the bachelors studies without enrolling to the university. Some of the courses, like first programming courses in CS, are free. Others cost a small fee, around 75€ per course. If you decide to enroll in the uni later, those will be acknowledged as well. They also have Digital Education For All program that has all of the first year studies for free.
I personally did complete about six months worth of studies while still in the secondary education.
For a lot of positions, this is worth more than a paper degree. If I came across a candidate who did all of this, has a profile filled with visible projects, and was able to finish all of this course work self directed then they are going to be worlds better than most CS graduates.
This is a nice way to learn CS in your own time. Sure there's no piece of paper at the end but it should help improve your skills & remove any sort of impostor syndrome junior self-taught devs might have.
Some of these comments remind me of an argument in "The Case Against Education" by Bryan Caplan that degrees are more about signalling than anything else nowadays.
If you have two candidates applying for a job. One audited MIT classes for four years completing all problem sets but not receiving any credits. The other cheated and dragged their way to a low-GPA degree but has the qualification. Who would be more likely to get a job offer?
If you have the opportunity to go to university, my personally small and insignificant advice - do it. If you're already established in the industry but haven't studied these things - do it.
> If you have the opportunity to go to university, my personally small and insignificant advice - do it.
I’ve attempted to look into it a few times, but it seems pretty clear they don’t want me. From the prohibitive costs, to the riding, bureaucratic admission where my high school disciplinary record is more important than my resume and where I’m a “dependent” despite what my tax returns have said for the last several years, it’s clear that universities are mostly interested in gullible HS seniors who’s parents can co-sign for insane loans. In the US at least.
OSSU does a great job. I recently started building a CS curriculum with a focus on giving students a single interactive place to get all the material. You can check it out here if interested: https://GitHub.com/Qvault/curriculum
I'm curios if OSSU's self-taught is more self-taught than typical CS course from other Coursera partner universities. I took several courses there (mainly from Duke) and I would not call it self-taught because instructor's role in the process was quite gross.
Aside from the fact you generally need licenses to practice these professions, an additional challenge is you need lab equipment that may be expensive, regulated, or dangerous to acquire, to actually practice doing anything. I can't see any practical way to self-practice civil engineering in particular. Nobody is going to let you build a test bridge. Universities provide lab facilities for you to do this kind of thing.
CS is the outlier because the only lab equipment you need is a used laptop or a Raspberry Pi and Internet access.
Granted, computational engineering where you can just simulate the lab has come a long way, but even there, you generally need a lot of compute power if you don't want your simulation of a bridge to take 3 months to run.
In many countries you can’t work as a traditional engineer without the license. To get the license you need to complete the degree, and then do the apprenticeship and exams.
Yes, some exceptions exist, but those are the minority, and they still require formal schooling. For example, [0] outlines requirements for a bridging pilot program in BC, Canada. To be eligible you are required to have a diploma of technology as the minimum level of education. That’s 2 years of study in BC. You’ll still need to learn the remaining 2 years of the engineering curriculum on your own and you’ll need to demonstrate equivalent mastery.
MIT OCW has a lot of material available for the traditional engineering curricula with guides [1].
The licensing body in your region may publish curricula that include example textbooks to acquire the material from. See [2], for example.
However, there are some limitations to what you can learn without having access to the labs. You can learn the mechanics, physics, programming, math calculation as an individual, but that’s not the only thing being taught.
With maker spaces it might be possible to learn some of the manufacturing process courses on your own.
Much of traditional engineering involves looking up details in the specifications and standards documents and “connecting the plumbing” so to speak. There are engineers who are “catalogue engineers” and others who are “spreadsheet engineers”. There is very little “rolling your own” like in software.
But again, why? If it’s for personal education, then the material is out there as I hope I’ve been able to show. But if it’s for professional practice, then going through a formal program of some kind is probably required.
[+] [-] asicsp|4 years ago|reply
* https://teachyourselfcs.com/
* https://matt.might.net/articles/what-cs-majors-should-know/
* https://github.com/ossu/data-science
[+] [-] heenrik|4 years ago|reply
I'm not surprised, but still, Bush, Licklider, Engelbart, Weiser, Kay, Victor etc. are all about HCI...
[+] [-] manquer|4 years ago|reply
I am not sure learning HCI helps with computer science itself most of which is really applied math.
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] j45|4 years ago|reply
Understanding the user beyond tactics of engagement and viral loops is a valuable skill.
With the sharding of software developers into frontend and backend developers, perhaps the HCI through the software layers is falling thru the cracks.
[+] [-] CleverLikeAnOx|4 years ago|reply
As someone with a deep love of learning and knowledge, I am delighted that this exists.
[+] [-] narag|4 years ago|reply
Obvious solution would be decoupling teaching and certification. Actually, having both performed by the same institutions seems like a conflict of interest.
[+] [-] austincheney|4 years ago|reply
That’s rich considering how quickly (and aggressively) software developers dismiss all other forms of credentials (licensing, certifications, advanced degrees), especially on HN.
[+] [-] LightMachine|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChrisRR|4 years ago|reply
The issue would be getting past the automated CV checkers or recruiters that will throw out any applicants that don't have a certain grade
[+] [-] nicoburns|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] j45|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dang|4 years ago|reply
OSSU: A path to a free self-taught education in computer science - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21062799 - Sept 2019 (172 comments)
Path to a free self-taught education in Computer Science - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16035839 - Dec 2017 (66 comments)
[+] [-] bruce343434|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lennoff|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mike00632|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lrvick|4 years ago|reply
This makes it hard to recommend to others.
I don't understand this trend.
[+] [-] jraph|4 years ago|reply
Network effect. I don't like it neither. Many open source projects adopt Discord now, making it harder to be part of their community if you want to avoid non-free software / closed networks. (What next? Open source projects hosted on a non-free social network? /s)
From the outside, this is an impressive phenomenon, where in a very short time you notice everybody suddenly going to Discord and you don't understand what's happening / what's the deal.
But since nobody cares, it's not a problem.
[+] [-] actually_a_dog|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nivenkos|4 years ago|reply
Unfortunately it's pretty worthless without a paper degree. It's cool that Finland is now having open online registration for Finnish citizens to do online courses like https://fullstackopen.com/en/
It's a shame something like that doesn't exist in every country.
[+] [-] dento|4 years ago|reply
I personally did complete about six months worth of studies while still in the secondary education.
[+] [-] tashoecraft|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] aero-glide2|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] KarimDaghari|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] exdsq|4 years ago|reply
Some of these comments remind me of an argument in "The Case Against Education" by Bryan Caplan that degrees are more about signalling than anything else nowadays.
If you have two candidates applying for a job. One audited MIT classes for four years completing all problem sets but not receiving any credits. The other cheated and dragged their way to a low-GPA degree but has the qualification. Who would be more likely to get a job offer?
[+] [-] mssundaram|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] the_only_law|4 years ago|reply
I’ve attempted to look into it a few times, but it seems pretty clear they don’t want me. From the prohibitive costs, to the riding, bureaucratic admission where my high school disciplinary record is more important than my resume and where I’m a “dependent” despite what my tax returns have said for the last several years, it’s clear that universities are mostly interested in gullible HS seniors who’s parents can co-sign for insane loans. In the US at least.
[+] [-] evnix|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lanecwagner|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] justshowpost|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jason0597|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nonameiguess|4 years ago|reply
CS is the outlier because the only lab equipment you need is a used laptop or a Raspberry Pi and Internet access.
Granted, computational engineering where you can just simulate the lab has come a long way, but even there, you generally need a lot of compute power if you don't want your simulation of a bridge to take 3 months to run.
[+] [-] wheelinsupial|4 years ago|reply
In many countries you can’t work as a traditional engineer without the license. To get the license you need to complete the degree, and then do the apprenticeship and exams.
Yes, some exceptions exist, but those are the minority, and they still require formal schooling. For example, [0] outlines requirements for a bridging pilot program in BC, Canada. To be eligible you are required to have a diploma of technology as the minimum level of education. That’s 2 years of study in BC. You’ll still need to learn the remaining 2 years of the engineering curriculum on your own and you’ll need to demonstrate equivalent mastery.
MIT OCW has a lot of material available for the traditional engineering curricula with guides [1].
The licensing body in your region may publish curricula that include example textbooks to acquire the material from. See [2], for example.
However, there are some limitations to what you can learn without having access to the labs. You can learn the mechanics, physics, programming, math calculation as an individual, but that’s not the only thing being taught.
With maker spaces it might be possible to learn some of the manufacturing process courses on your own.
Much of traditional engineering involves looking up details in the specifications and standards documents and “connecting the plumbing” so to speak. There are engineers who are “catalogue engineers” and others who are “spreadsheet engineers”. There is very little “rolling your own” like in software.
But again, why? If it’s for personal education, then the material is out there as I hope I’ve been able to show. But if it’s for professional practice, then going through a formal program of some kind is probably required.
[0] https://www.egbc.ca/Registration/Individual-Registrants/How-...
[1] https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mit-curriculum-guide/
[2] https://www.egbc.ca/Registration/Individual-Registrants/How-...
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