I live around Portland, OR. I took my family berry-picking a couple of weeks back and it was a very sad sight. Almost all the raspberries, blackberries, boysenberries, and marionberries were gone. The blue-berries were the only things to survive pretty much, but they had very little flavor.
In my backyard on the first day we hit 107-108, I lost all my pea plants and my green beans took a major beating. My corn and zucchini plants were wilting like crazy, I thought they were a goner. The second day I said forget this and just let the garden sprinkler run all afternoon; high water-bill be damned. That did the trick, I managed to save my tomatoes, corn, a good chunk of the green beans, and the zucchini. The south-facing side of my Japanese maple is still scorched.
What a crazy event. The worst part of it is all the people that lost their lives.
I was reading this article [1] last night and this paragraph in particular has been bouncing around my head all morning:
The crisis, said Eric Kuhn, former general manager of the Colorado River Conservation District, can no longer be ignored. “According to Merriam-Webster, a drought is a temporary condition,” he said. What is happening, he suggested, is something more permanent and troubling. “This is aridification.”
I think it's just because the framing for so long has been "drought", when it clear that what is going on is probably more severe.
Not to take away from what you're saying, I agree. I presume I'm in the minority of Canadians, but when the current government announced that new combustion vehicles would be banned in 2035, the only thing I could think is I need to vote for the green party. New sale combustion vehicles should be banned by ~2025, even if that means setting up crown corporations with tax dollars to deal with the infrastructure requirements. By 2035, it should be illegal drive one on public roads, period. At this point, I will only vote for people with a fully environment first platform, even at the expense of "bad" fiscal/economic policy for the country.
I don't disagree with where you are going, but I think there might be easier ways to geoengineer than mirroring sun directly back out into space (unless I miss my mark at what solar geoengineering is - if so, I'm sorry). I cound't find it, there's also the "plan" to release megafauna into the midwest and pay to have them "sheparded" so they become a commodity instead of a liability, creating grasslands again.
If we implement a bandaid with geoengineering, do you think we'll still try to fix the root cause (burning fossil fuels)? Or will we kick the can even further?
I live in the Pacific Northwest. It took only two years to go from:
"Breaking news: Record-setting forest fires in California will send smoke up to Washington."
to:
"It's wildfire season again, here's our favorite air filters for 2021."
Humanity's ability to go from "oh, shit" to "this is fine" and just not realize how much worse things have gotten is incredible.
I assume in 2025 we'll all just scroll past the boring article about which ten metropolitan cities in Florida washed into the Gulf today so that we can get to some funny comics.
Welcome to reality. While the media and governments are talking about finally preventing global warming, it is already too late. The question is, if we mobilize the entire world economy to mitigate it, it might last only a few hundred years instead of a few thousand. Ironically, I think lying to the public and claiming to be trying to "prevent" global warming is better, people would just give up if they knew what the actual impact of our actions would be.
"Before 1800, several million acres burned every year in California due to both Indigenous burning and lightning-caused fires, far more than even the worst wildfire years today. Tribes used low-grade fires to shape the landscape, encouraging certain plants to grow both for tribal use and to attract game."
The saddest part is that we could still limit the damage to the future of our civilization by actually doing something, instead of like , perfomatively banning plastic, while leaving cars and oil/gas power plants alone.
I mean, how many thousands of years of plastic utensil avoidence equals an oil well operation over a year?
It’s not really fun to conclude that it would be more humane to not have them, than to bring children into a world completely consumed by its egotistical inhabitant’s desperate desire to please Moloch at absolutely any cost.
All this talk of geoengineering solutions seem to miss one crucial detail: who's paying for it? We can't even make people agree on carbon tax.
With any money available, we can build solar/wind farm, which is a proven method of fighting AGW (and it even pays for itself these days!) and we can't even do that fast enough.
My hope is that there's a silver lining: farmers may finally accept that climate change is happening and start supporting policies to combat it. It's a long shot but I'm somewhat hopeful.
I live in the Willamette Valley, the heat wave has actually helped my fruit trees and blueberries but the eastern part of OR and WA are in pretty bad shape.
Farmers have known about climate change and accepted it for years [0]. What's missing is the acceptance that it's anthropogenic. So instead of supporting any sort of helpful policies most farmers (which are really just huge agricultural concerns) just bitch about water rights, "city folk", and stick their hands out for government subsidies.
I don't expect much self reflection from that group. They finance state and federal representatives to double down on subsidies rather than any meaningful changes.
Apparently I am out of a loop: Farmers are denying climate change? If my livelihood depends on good climate, how can I not notice a good climate going bad?
I'd like to understand. Is this something beyond wilful denial?
People who's livelihood depends on the climate are generally
going to have opinions about the climate that track the evidence and scientific consensus.
A lot of people who don't "accept that climate change is happening" actually do when you talk to them and understand where they're coming from. What they often don't like are the proposed solutions to it. Which makes sense when you consider that those proposed solutions often involve completely upending their life.
What's your take on the Willamette Valley becoming the next Napa? I've heard this being discussed as climate change and wildfires become more apparent in California.
I don't think this comment understands the reality of how great the US's food producing abilities are. US producers could add more new land to its agriculture output than all other countries combined. All that new land is in areas that already have infrastructure for that land to be productive. US farms continue to increase the productivity of their land. In some locations in the Midwest, farmers are able to increase their crop cycles.
The effects of climate change are probably a net gain for US agriculture, I don't expect the fight to come from them.
The USDA pumped 20bn in as recently as 2019. Partly for trade war and partly for flooding and other natural disasters. They didn't even need congressional approval, the USDA has a mandate to spend as it deems necessary.
Seattle-area resident here. Fir trees are browned on the top-sides of their branches and native shrubs and bushes have taken a bad beating from the heat. A large fraction of deciduous trees look like they would in fall. Anything near asphalt is close to dead. I measured 162F on our driveway asphalt, sufficient to cook meat.
As a once every few decades event, this is not a big deal, the vegetation will recover. However, if this happens once every 2-3 years, the Pacific NW tree cover is in deep trouble. I can see it changing from evergreen to deciduous over time if the trend continues.
What neighborhood do you live in? Up here in Ballard, I'm not noticing much damage yet, definitely not any dying trees, but we have a bit more coolness, humidity going on because of the bay/canal.
Counter-anecdote: I live in Seattle, my fir trees look normal. My garden survived the heat wave without issue. Auto-drip irrigation runs at dusk and dawn, same as every other year. Our small marijuana crop was briefly at risk without extra ventilation, but otherwise it’s a normal crop year for us.
Also, none of berries were scorched as mentioned in other threads. We actually had a huge, way above-average raspberry harvest. Maybe we’re just lucky?
Will be a once in life opportunity for doing research in ecological sucesion.
If this was a unique event, my bet would be a fast recovery of most invertebrates in 2-3 years. Maybe a year of savage algae blooming. If the event becomes more frequent the entire ecosystem will be replaced by southern animals. Crustaceans will explode in a few years, probably. This is a blessing for some animals.
If this persists annually, it could result in another selective event like what happened with peppered moths in Sheffield during the Industrial Revolution:
In Georgia, this year has been cooler than usual. I don't even think it's broke 90 (F) yet here where we live in North Georgia. And a late frost took out a good number of fruits (like figs) and killed a number of trees.
Baking the wheat crop this time of year is a good thing, not a bad one. Lower moisture contents during harvest increases value as it's easier to store for a myriad of reasons.
What does that have to do with anything? Even if true (and say the 2000 year old climate data was not cherry picked to make a point) I doubt that the changes back then to the current ‘abnormality’ happened at the same pace the current changes back to the supposed ‘normality’.
Also the changes back to this supposed ‘normality’ are only happening now because of abnormally high co2 levels in the atmosphere—emitted by humans—which are causing the temperature to go up in most places on the planet. The changes in the pacific north west is a manifestation of this broader change, and that is what people are justly worried about. No matter if the climate in this local area is going back to an “older patter”.
You don't have to go far to find someone who doesn't believe climate change will affect them in their lifetime, but I think people are [blissfully] unaware of how fragile and capitalist-driven the West's food market is.
It would only take a couple of failed seasons before our poor starved and we faced massive inflation.
We need to start coming up with fixes, 20 years ago. I fear what's more likely is people clawing onto what they've got by further destroying the planet, as well as excessive hoarding, further strangling supply.
[+] [-] y-c-o-m-b|4 years ago|reply
In my backyard on the first day we hit 107-108, I lost all my pea plants and my green beans took a major beating. My corn and zucchini plants were wilting like crazy, I thought they were a goner. The second day I said forget this and just let the garden sprinkler run all afternoon; high water-bill be damned. That did the trick, I managed to save my tomatoes, corn, a good chunk of the green beans, and the zucchini. The south-facing side of my Japanese maple is still scorched.
What a crazy event. The worst part of it is all the people that lost their lives.
[+] [-] alexose|4 years ago|reply
It's time to consider solar geoengineering or other more extreme mitigation strategies.
[+] [-] ssully|4 years ago|reply
The crisis, said Eric Kuhn, former general manager of the Colorado River Conservation District, can no longer be ignored. “According to Merriam-Webster, a drought is a temporary condition,” he said. What is happening, he suggested, is something more permanent and troubling. “This is aridification.”
I think it's just because the framing for so long has been "drought", when it clear that what is going on is probably more severe.
[1]: https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2021-07-11/lake-m...
[+] [-] neom|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] UnpossibleJim|4 years ago|reply
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45435593
I don't disagree with where you are going, but I think there might be easier ways to geoengineer than mirroring sun directly back out into space (unless I miss my mark at what solar geoengineering is - if so, I'm sorry). I cound't find it, there's also the "plan" to release megafauna into the midwest and pay to have them "sheparded" so they become a commodity instead of a liability, creating grasslands again.
EDIT: typo
[+] [-] toomuchtodo|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] munificent|4 years ago|reply
"Breaking news: Record-setting forest fires in California will send smoke up to Washington."
to:
"It's wildfire season again, here's our favorite air filters for 2021."
Humanity's ability to go from "oh, shit" to "this is fine" and just not realize how much worse things have gotten is incredible.
I assume in 2025 we'll all just scroll past the boring article about which ten metropolitan cities in Florida washed into the Gulf today so that we can get to some funny comics.
[+] [-] blamestross|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TheBill|4 years ago|reply
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/24/899422710/to-manage-wildfire-...
"Before 1800, several million acres burned every year in California due to both Indigenous burning and lightning-caused fires, far more than even the worst wildfire years today. Tribes used low-grade fires to shape the landscape, encouraging certain plants to grow both for tribal use and to attract game."
[+] [-] cannabis_sam|4 years ago|reply
I mean, how many thousands of years of plastic utensil avoidence equals an oil well operation over a year?
It’s not really fun to conclude that it would be more humane to not have them, than to bring children into a world completely consumed by its egotistical inhabitant’s desperate desire to please Moloch at absolutely any cost.
[+] [-] yongjik|4 years ago|reply
With any money available, we can build solar/wind farm, which is a proven method of fighting AGW (and it even pays for itself these days!) and we can't even do that fast enough.
[+] [-] GoodJokes|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] swader999|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zwieback|4 years ago|reply
I live in the Willamette Valley, the heat wave has actually helped my fruit trees and blueberries but the eastern part of OR and WA are in pretty bad shape.
[+] [-] giantrobot|4 years ago|reply
I don't expect much self reflection from that group. They finance state and federal representatives to double down on subsidies rather than any meaningful changes.
[0] https://www.arborday.org/media/mapchanges.cfm
[+] [-] drdeadringer|4 years ago|reply
I'd like to understand. Is this something beyond wilful denial?
[+] [-] throwaway0a5e|4 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-group_homogeneity
People who's livelihood depends on the climate are generally going to have opinions about the climate that track the evidence and scientific consensus.
[+] [-] jeffreyrogers|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] acwan93|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nakodari|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] francisofascii|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] crisdux|4 years ago|reply
The effects of climate change are probably a net gain for US agriculture, I don't expect the fight to come from them.
[+] [-] LatteLazy|4 years ago|reply
Edit:
Citation in case people people need one...
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/12/31/790261705/fa...
The USDA pumped 20bn in as recently as 2019. Partly for trade war and partly for flooding and other natural disasters. They didn't even need congressional approval, the USDA has a mandate to spend as it deems necessary.
[+] [-] Daishiman|4 years ago|reply
We are watching the world wither away, quite rapidly, with nothing to show for it.
[+] [-] r00fus|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] erdos4d|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GoodJokes|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] refurb|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spywaregorilla|4 years ago|reply
Except for the entirety of human civilization, sure.
[+] [-] groos|4 years ago|reply
As a once every few decades event, this is not a big deal, the vegetation will recover. However, if this happens once every 2-3 years, the Pacific NW tree cover is in deep trouble. I can see it changing from evergreen to deciduous over time if the trend continues.
[+] [-] seanmcdirmid|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fingerlocks|4 years ago|reply
Also, none of berries were scorched as mentioned in other threads. We actually had a huge, way above-average raspberry harvest. Maybe we’re just lucky?
[+] [-] neom|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pvaldes|4 years ago|reply
If this was a unique event, my bet would be a fast recovery of most invertebrates in 2-3 years. Maybe a year of savage algae blooming. If the event becomes more frequent the entire ecosystem will be replaced by southern animals. Crustaceans will explode in a few years, probably. This is a blessing for some animals.
[+] [-] refurb|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ortusdux|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danans|4 years ago|reply
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-36424768
[+] [-] calebm|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alexose|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] calebn|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] exabrial|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] subsubzero|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] runarberg|4 years ago|reply
Also the changes back to this supposed ‘normality’ are only happening now because of abnormally high co2 levels in the atmosphere—emitted by humans—which are causing the temperature to go up in most places on the planet. The changes in the pacific north west is a manifestation of this broader change, and that is what people are justly worried about. No matter if the climate in this local area is going back to an “older patter”.
[+] [-] oliwarner|4 years ago|reply
It would only take a couple of failed seasons before our poor starved and we faced massive inflation.
We need to start coming up with fixes, 20 years ago. I fear what's more likely is people clawing onto what they've got by further destroying the planet, as well as excessive hoarding, further strangling supply.
[+] [-] buypharma|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] mrfusion|4 years ago|reply
Is every temperature anomaly caused by climate change?