Am I the only one that absolutely hates these types of pages?
"We really won't tell you any specifics of what we're doing, but give us your email address and we'll be sure to send you advertisements when we decide to!"
Do these things usually work? If it's a YC startup, or is being done by a friend or something, I'll usually give up my email address, but when it's just "we promise the moon! We'll respect your email, honest!", I usually skip it.
For me it's the "Stealth Mode" job listings that say "Send us all your information and we might tell you what the company does or what the job entails!" I saw one like this on reddit which claimed to be a seed funded startup in NYC (which is my area, finally!) but didn't describe the company at all.
I wonder if those anonymous ads or recruiting posts get any responses.
Remember that you have a powerful weapon at your disposal. If you and a few others mark their emails as spam in GMail, all of their emails could start disappearing into the black hole, putting a serious crimp on their business.
a) How in god's name do they keep costs to $150/month for only 9 passengers. Those passengers will collectively pay $1350 a month for unlimited flights? Are they assuming the majority will end up only flying once or twice? What if they get mostly business guys that fly a couple of times a week. I don't get pricing. One ticket costs more than $150.
b) What stops the TSA from simply stepping in and deeming this a security risk? Limit goes from 9 passengers to 5. Or 4. Etc.
c) Even if the TSA doesn't step in and change the law, how does this guarantee safety? I'm not a fan of TSA and as an Arab flying I'm permanently chosen for the "random check"...but there's a reason airport security exists, no?
d) What about this team makes us think they can build it? They're bootstrapped and trying to buy planes. Using early customer deposits. And their tech team is recruited via a tweet ( https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968) So seriously, if these guys don't have tech talent or deep pockets, what do they bring to the table?
e) There's no mention on whether the big airports would allow this to go on. "Flying from New York to D.C." : Would that entail driving out somewhere random in Jersey and landing somewhere random far away in Virginia far away from D.C.?
f) "Luxurious" 9-person planes. Luxury here is subjective. Is it a Gulfstream V or a Cessna Caravan?
g) Booking. Besides the fact that they're looking for tech geniuses to build their system via Twitter, any idea on what booking will look like? Will I have to book in advance? How big will the airline "fleet" be? If I'm on an "all-you-can-eat" flight model, I'd expect to be able to log on today and book a flight for Philly tomorrow or the day after. That's what Net Jets does.
I like what they're promising. But there are just a ton of really important tough questions that they seriously need to answer.
"A few weeks before we start flying we'll begin selling subscriptions. We will be rewarding our earliest supporters (the first 500), and those who recruit the most friends to PlaneRed with $150/month all-you-can-fly pricing. Obviously, the number of subscriptions we can sell at that price are pretty limited. So please - tell your friends to ensure that you get one!"
skip TSA
Excuse me? This entire idea, even if realistic, is fraught with political risk: "Oh, you're flying 9 person-planes to avoid our law? One of the major airlines is lobbying against you? Well... time to change the law."
Our goal is to change the way we fly. No more buying outrageously priced tickets. No more lost luggage. No more middle seats in a cramped cabin. And no more TSA.
By signing up we'll make sure you know what's happening as we build our airline - and you'll be among the first to know when we're ready to launch.
A few weeks before we start flying we'll begin selling subscriptions. We will be rewarding our earliest supporters (the first 500), and those who recruit the most friends to PlaneRed with $150/month all-you-can-fly pricing. Obviously, the number of subscriptions we can sell at that price are pretty limited. So please - tell your friends to ensure that you get one!
It was my knowledge that it was difficult to go lower on prices in any way without losing money?
The larger planes could take advantage of economies of scale, the only way to get lower fares would be to drastically reduce the cost of flying a plane in the first place.
No lost luggage, more spacious interiors, and less TSA are always selling points though.
A two hour flight would cost at the very minimum $6000. With a maximum of 10 passengers, that works out to $600/ per passenger. I don't understand how they can offer this for $150/mo. Perhaps they bombard passengers with advertisements or do scientific experiments to them.
We’d like to get subscriptions down to $150 a month. In fact, we’re guaranteeing that rate to some early subscribers, and the top PlaneRed.com referrers.
But, if at that rate we just can’t put enough planes in the sky to meet demand - we’ll have to charge a little more on the subscription - or add a small $25 cost for each flight. (We know - that ruins the ‘all you can fly’ but we’ve had several folks make passionate cases for doing so.) What do you think? Which would be better $250 a month, or $150 a month, and $25 per flight?
If they're bootstrapped as they say they are, and can get revenue right away, more power to them. Air taxis were supposed to be the hot new thing in 2008. I think Ron Garrett (cofounder of what became Virgin Charter) has an account on HN; I hope he'll comment.
This is a really tough sell... There is no screening for planes smaller than 10 passengers if there is no "sterile" area at either airport. This means that they'll have to fly into smaller airports, which (often) means you're further from the city, with no rental car, public transportation, etc.
They will likely be flying small propeller planes, which many people don't like... props make sense for these short routes though because they are often faster, based on the fact that there is less time for takeoff and landing (they don't spend as much time "reaching altitude")
I also don't like that they are trying to bootstrap based on folks buying these subscriptions which they have yet to launch, and that they plan to launch in a month. Very pyramid-scheme-like.
I would love for it to work, but I just can't see this business model surviving. It reminds me a bit of independence air and Dayjet, both of which lasted less than a year.
This is a really easy sell... There is no demeaning 4th-Amendment-violating security-theater "screening" to submit to. This means that they'll have to fly into smaller airports, which (often) means you're closer to your endpoints, with no parking hassles, easy dropoff/pickup, etc.
They will likely be flying small propeller planes, which many people prefer...
I also like that they are trying to bootstrap into a functioning business ASAP without having to wait for big money and big arrangements to coalesce, and that they plan to launch in a month. Very make-it-happen Done-Manifesto-like.
I would love for it to work, and I see this business model as inevitable given the simmering backlash against TSA and cattle-car airlines. It reminds me a bit of independence, liberty, and freedom, all of which have an ongoing struggle against oppressive polypragmonocracy.
[+] [-] blhack|14 years ago|reply
"We really won't tell you any specifics of what we're doing, but give us your email address and we'll be sure to send you advertisements when we decide to!"
Do these things usually work? If it's a YC startup, or is being done by a friend or something, I'll usually give up my email address, but when it's just "we promise the moon! We'll respect your email, honest!", I usually skip it.
[+] [-] parfe|14 years ago|reply
For me it's the "Stealth Mode" job listings that say "Send us all your information and we might tell you what the company does or what the job entails!" I saw one like this on reddit which claimed to be a seed funded startup in NYC (which is my area, finally!) but didn't describe the company at all.
I wonder if those anonymous ads or recruiting posts get any responses.
[+] [-] iaskwhy|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mayneack|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bryanlarsen|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kloncks|14 years ago|reply
a) How in god's name do they keep costs to $150/month for only 9 passengers. Those passengers will collectively pay $1350 a month for unlimited flights? Are they assuming the majority will end up only flying once or twice? What if they get mostly business guys that fly a couple of times a week. I don't get pricing. One ticket costs more than $150.
b) What stops the TSA from simply stepping in and deeming this a security risk? Limit goes from 9 passengers to 5. Or 4. Etc.
c) Even if the TSA doesn't step in and change the law, how does this guarantee safety? I'm not a fan of TSA and as an Arab flying I'm permanently chosen for the "random check"...but there's a reason airport security exists, no?
d) What about this team makes us think they can build it? They're bootstrapped and trying to buy planes. Using early customer deposits. And their tech team is recruited via a tweet ( https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968) So seriously, if these guys don't have tech talent or deep pockets, what do they bring to the table?
e) There's no mention on whether the big airports would allow this to go on. "Flying from New York to D.C." : Would that entail driving out somewhere random in Jersey and landing somewhere random far away in Virginia far away from D.C.?
f) "Luxurious" 9-person planes. Luxury here is subjective. Is it a Gulfstream V or a Cessna Caravan?
g) Booking. Besides the fact that they're looking for tech geniuses to build their system via Twitter, any idea on what booking will look like? Will I have to book in advance? How big will the airline "fleet" be? If I'm on an "all-you-can-eat" flight model, I'd expect to be able to log on today and book a flight for Philly tomorrow or the day after. That's what Net Jets does.
I like what they're promising. But there are just a ton of really important tough questions that they seriously need to answer.
[+] [-] colinplamondon|14 years ago|reply
From their email:
"A few weeks before we start flying we'll begin selling subscriptions. We will be rewarding our earliest supporters (the first 500), and those who recruit the most friends to PlaneRed with $150/month all-you-can-fly pricing. Obviously, the number of subscriptions we can sell at that price are pretty limited. So please - tell your friends to ensure that you get one!"
[+] [-] Shenglong|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] peteretep|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mef|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eiji|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mef|14 years ago|reply
Thanks for signing up!
Our goal is to change the way we fly. No more buying outrageously priced tickets. No more lost luggage. No more middle seats in a cramped cabin. And no more TSA.
By signing up we'll make sure you know what's happening as we build our airline - and you'll be among the first to know when we're ready to launch.
A few weeks before we start flying we'll begin selling subscriptions. We will be rewarding our earliest supporters (the first 500), and those who recruit the most friends to PlaneRed with $150/month all-you-can-fly pricing. Obviously, the number of subscriptions we can sell at that price are pretty limited. So please - tell your friends to ensure that you get one!
[+] [-] decadentcactus|14 years ago|reply
The larger planes could take advantage of economies of scale, the only way to get lower fares would be to drastically reduce the cost of flying a plane in the first place.
No lost luggage, more spacious interiors, and less TSA are always selling points though.
[+] [-] seanmccann|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Bostwick|14 years ago|reply
We’d like to get subscriptions down to $150 a month. In fact, we’re guaranteeing that rate to some early subscribers, and the top PlaneRed.com referrers.
But, if at that rate we just can’t put enough planes in the sky to meet demand - we’ll have to charge a little more on the subscription - or add a small $25 cost for each flight. (We know - that ruins the ‘all you can fly’ but we’ve had several folks make passionate cases for doing so.) What do you think? Which would be better $250 a month, or $150 a month, and $25 per flight?
[+] [-] sedachv|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrisbennet|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bengl3rt|14 years ago|reply
(Hi Mike! When's your RTW trip?)
[+] [-] kloncks|14 years ago|reply
https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968
[+] [-] pitdesi|14 years ago|reply
They will likely be flying small propeller planes, which many people don't like... props make sense for these short routes though because they are often faster, based on the fact that there is less time for takeoff and landing (they don't spend as much time "reaching altitude")
I also don't like that they are trying to bootstrap based on folks buying these subscriptions which they have yet to launch, and that they plan to launch in a month. Very pyramid-scheme-like.
I would love for it to work, but I just can't see this business model surviving. It reminds me a bit of independence air and Dayjet, both of which lasted less than a year.
Also, this doesn't inspire confidence: https://twitter.com/#!/PlaneRed/status/93572991077715968
[+] [-] ctdonath|14 years ago|reply
They will likely be flying small propeller planes, which many people prefer...
I also like that they are trying to bootstrap into a functioning business ASAP without having to wait for big money and big arrangements to coalesce, and that they plan to launch in a month. Very make-it-happen Done-Manifesto-like.
I would love for it to work, and I see this business model as inevitable given the simmering backlash against TSA and cattle-car airlines. It reminds me a bit of independence, liberty, and freedom, all of which have an ongoing struggle against oppressive polypragmonocracy.
[+] [-] rocktronica|14 years ago|reply