[AKSucks]

Can we please not use the term "sex worker" for people who do not face the vast majority of risks (health/physical, financial, legal-of-the-criminal-sort, and emotional) that someone who actually engages in sex with other people for money does?

You (generally speaking) cannot get infected with STIs, pregnant, assaulted, raped, drugged, stabbed, murdered, convicted, jailed - for being a camgirl. You (generally speaking) can use the banking system, report that income, pay taxes on it, etc. You don't need to seek "camgirl friendly" medical professionals. Etc, etc.

I knew someone who called herself a sex worker because she posed for some fetish clothing store photos and did some fetish site photo shoots (it was a fetish involving certain items. No interaction, much less sexual, with other models/actresses. Nothing went into anyone's orifices.)

You might technically kinda almost be right when you squint really hard and aren't wearing your glasses in a dark room and you've had a few shots. But you're assigning/claiming a label to grant/be viewed as oppressed/lower-privileged while not actually suffering from oppression or lower privilege.

Camgirls - and models - calling themselves "sex workers" is like calling yourself black when you had a great-grandfather who was black.

[dannyw]

Before getting super vocal, please consider that HN is a global community and hence your critique might be very irrelevant to GP or other readers.

Sex work is very different in Australia for example, where it is regulated, with regular testing, mandated security at venues, and no risk of criminalisation. Full access to banking. And while assaults are always a risk, there are "camgirls" who have been doxxed and raped too.

This is why I think people should stop being outraged by words especially in mass media. Context is key, and context is local.

[GuB-42]

There is no clear definition of a sex worker, but usually, it includes more than prostitution.

Here is from Wikipedia:

> Not to be confused with prostitution. Sex work is "the exchange of sexual services, performances, or products for material compensation.[1][2] It includes activities of direct physical contact between buyers and sellers as well as indirect sexual stimulation".[3]

Here is from Merriam-Webster:

> a person whose work involves sexually explicit behavior

Here is from Oxford Reference:

> Is paid employment in the sex industry, comprising prostitution and pornography

So by these definitions, camgirls are sex workers.

[caconym_]

Why do you feel it's necessary to gatekeep this general term? We already have a word for people who literally have sex for money, and it seems perfectly reasonable to place it under a broader "sex worker" umbrella.

Also, not that it matters, but you really seem to be minimizing the issues that camgirls etc. face. Sure, a prostitute may be putting themselves in more physical danger, but the downsides to these jobs do have a lot in common. See all over this thread for examples.

[dragonwriter]

> You (generally speaking) cannot get infected with STIs, pregnant, assaulted, raped, drugged, stabbed, murdered, convicted, jailed - for being a camgirl.

Yes, you can. Plenty of camgirls who start off doing exclusively solo work progress to other types of shows involving other people, which involve all the risks of in-person sex work (because it is that) as well as all the special risks of online sex work (because it is that, too), and presumably they do so because of the systematic incentives of the industry.

> Camgirls - and models - calling themselves "sex workers" is like calling yourself black when you had a great-grandfather who was black.

Given the continued influence of the one-drop rule on views of race by race essentialists on the White side, and that from the Black side the shared identity is mostly one of shared experience of white racism, that's perfectly normal.

[emptysongglass]

My wife did literal prostitution before camming, which was exceedingly more dangerous and traumatic. Many camgirls come from similar backgrounds or else do physical prostitution/sugardating on the side to high-rollers.

So no I don't think the label is misplaced by and large and I think making a racial analogy is offensively off the mark.

[angus-prune]

"Sex worker" is the correct term for both contact and non-contact erotic services and is absolutley the appropriate term to use in this context.

The term was developed by sex workers explicitly for two purposes

1) To move away from the stigma of the term "prostitute"

2) To specifically include sex workers beyond escorts, including porn performers, camgirls, strippers etc

[xenocratus]

This is part of the concept creep saga: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10463283.2020.1...

[Dah00n]

Sorry if I step on some toes here since I know very little about this topic (feel free to correct me!) but isn't this turning things on their head? Normally in discussing other topics I see people arguing that a quicker/earlier stigma leads to less people going further. Is this wrong?

[tnzm]

Right now, certain media outlets have been promoting a "debate about sex work". As usual, this is meant to shutdown any productive debate on the subject. You seem to start with a preconceived notion that "sex work" is harmful and people need to be prevented/protected from engaging in it. As with any aspect of our society, there are too many feedback loops involved here for anyone to have an opinion which is not based on anecdotes and propaganda, except the sex workers themselves (maybe!)

So let's discuss the general case instead.

Stigma and ostracism are very ancient tools for ensuring compliance within a social group by threatening members with social exclusion; however, quicker/earlier stigma prevents non-conformity earlier, but it also locks people out "on the outside" quicker/earlier. Stigma is also easy to abuse - it's the perfect excuse for hurting someone who you see as "less than human" due to their stigma, and then blaming them for it.

If you're betting on a civilization collapse scenario where in-group cohesion is the decisive factor for survival, it would be rational for you to uphold stigmatization of any behavior that diverges from the established rituals of your in-group. Our present civilization, however, has decided that social exclusion is harmful in the general case, and (quite haphazardly) is trying to remedy _that_.

As our systems become stable enough to support people safely "going further" with their diverse, even mutually incompatible lifestyle choices, the logical conclusion would be to eradicate stigma and replace it with a more humane way of nudging people away from potentially harmful actions.

[tclancy]

Why do you get to frame this discussion?

[watwut]

The term sex worker always included porn workers?

[tasogare]

I agree, let's stop using sex worker and use the proper term for the activity of selling sexual service: prostitute.

[sneak]

> You (generally speaking) cannot get infected with STIs, pregnant, assaulted, raped, drugged, stabbed, murdered, convicted, jailed - for being a camgirl.

This is not really a true statement.