If you consider GlobalFoundries to be a valid competitor, then that move would make a lot of sense. Infineon and AMD used to do a lot of research and production in Dresden. The AMD fab has since become a part of GlobalFoundries. But there's still a healthy ecosystem of university research and medium-sized software companies. Or at least there was, when I visited GlobalFoundries in 2014.
Also, there has been a growing amount of research activity into chip design in Germany lately, driven in no small part by CERN's needs.
Actually there is a lot of current semi activity in Dresden. It's the biggest cluster in Europe.
Notable fabs in Dresden: Globalfoundries, Infineon, Bosch (recently opened), X-Fab, First Sensor, Plastic Logic (now defunct). May be noteworthy that some of these fabs are among the semi fabs with the highest degree of automotation world wide.
Add to this many bigger and smaller suppliers, universities, reasearch institutes and so on.
There's also Texas Instruments in Freising (near Munich), which I think is ex-NatSemi, and AFAIK now their only European fab after the closure of their one in Greenock (Scotland).
I don't see GlobalFoundries as a realistic competitor to TSMC. Also CERN's needs cannot be compared to the needs of Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook and the likes. That right there is a huge chunk of the world's economy and they all rely on TSMC directly or indirectly.
My guess would be this is more about diversifying. I think it makes a lot of sense to have factories in the US, Europe and Asia, especially given China's stance on Taiwan.
Any historic reason for the cluster to be in Dresden? I would have expected the most sophisticated areas to be in Western Germany area. Maybe govt encouraged development there?
TSMC is really the keystone for everything else done that ends up getting talked about on this website. They are constantly at the bleeding edge of computer manufacture and pushing it further still. We should feel some sense of amazement to be alive still in the middle of the computer revolution.
Not to mention the people who design many of the machines that TSMC use in their plants: ASML.
"The mirrors guiding this light, made of sandwiched layers of silicon and molybdenum, are ground so precisely that, if scaled to the size of Germany, they would have no bumps bigger than a millimetre"
<https://www.economist.com/business/2020/02/29/how-asml-becam...>
>still in the middle of the computer revolution
Are you implying it will end? Either Moore's law leveling off or an externality (unrest/war/climate change) that ends it?
I think that they are, in fact, intending to open new fabs in both Japan and Europe. Given the presence of GlobalFoundries and others in Germany, that would make sense for a European base.
This doesn't mean that it's not _also_ intended to help with negotiations, of course. It can be both true, and stated out loud for the purpose of seeing what other offers come up.
This is a major geopolitical decission. TSMC is responisble for 1/3 of chips worldwide (in an industry with few players). China's claim on Taiwan has a lot to do with that.
Germany is a great place to invest. So is most of Western Europe. The #1 thing you are looking for is _stability_ and a good engineering job market. Both is available.
For this kind of automated high-tech manufacturing, nobody cares about salaries. They are <<1% of the cost.
I wouldn't be as harsh, but indeed that decision is a bit weird. They cannot really count on cheap labour, or "friendly" economic incentives. And seeing the case of Tesla factory, it's not so easy and fast.
One great thing about Germany is the central location within EU with good logistics overall. Not sure it matters for semiconductor manufacturing.
Countries that have semi factories in Europe: Germany, Italy, France, Ireland, Netherlands, UK, Austria, Belgium, and Hungary (with different capabilities and sizes)
So it would be natural that it ends on the countries with existing factories and expertise.
The German (or even we might say, "north-european") self-deprecation gets old sometimes...
Another German here, I agree. The regulatory hurdles are insane, the sentiment among the population is anti-business and I see the chance that the Green Party will be in the Next government as another negative point for businesses.
Also, according to article linked below (in German), Intel is considering building a semiconductor factory in Germany. The had plans in 2003, but the project failed and cost the German taxpayer a small fortune.
I am very sceptical regarding the plans of Intel, but the TSMC plan sounds promising. If I were to decide, I would build a factory in Saxonia near Dresden. People there are traditionally inventive, labor costs are far lower than in the Munich region, and there is a lot of skill available due to the previous AMD investments.
It sure does, the EU announces they're going to invest X tens of billions in chips, and the next thing you know, the largest backer and beneficiary of EU gets this new factory.
I'm wondering about Italy. They have an established industrial base. They manufacture a surprising amount of high tech, but don't brag about it like Germany.
Many good European neighbours to provide a broad range of skilled workers and researchers.
I hope the German ans EU labour laws atleast make the working conditions bearable. Working at TSMC is hellish. I worked as a tool vendor. It was crazy.
It does make some sort of sense if you're trying to stay clear of the US/China catfight & EU is not a bad place to start in that regard. Plus it ticks the box of EU origin, which is interesting in itself if you want to expand there.
A lot of people seem to think (high, German) Labour costs matter in this desicion. I don't think they do. If TSCM hires someone 1% better than the other guy, he makes them millions more with a better design/brighter idea etc. So paying 50% more on his salary is very affordable. That's the difference between a high tech company and amazon, Walmart etc.
Germany seems like exactly the place I'd look for a highly educated workforce and one with a strong engineering culture. AND a place where workers will stay for a lifetime not just jump ship every 24months or take a fat cheque from China to move there and build them a TSCM copy.
I'd be more worried about German pollution, health and safety etc laws, as this is a dirty industry. And I'd be more worried about getting a big chunk of land and planning permission.
not really related but I found this really interesting channel with many TSMC/Taiwan/semiconducting related video, as well as asian geopolitics if you're into that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAlU6vQ1Pn8
Wonder how much TSMC Biontech vaccine deal influenced decision. Assume some level of gov involvement considering Germany was annoyed that US car manufactures got first dibs during shortage.
>"TSMC supplies chips to almost all the key global chip developers, from Apple, Qualcomm and Advanced Microelectronics Devices to Intel, Infineon and Sony."
When exactly did Intel become a customer of TSMC? Is this for a recent process technology or is this only for specific types of chips? I under the impression Intel chips always came from their own fabs.
[+] [-] fxtentacle|4 years ago|reply
Also, there has been a growing amount of research activity into chip design in Germany lately, driven in no small part by CERN's needs.
For example https://ohwr.org/project/white-rabbit/wikis/home used by the Control and Timing System at CERN and GSI
[+] [-] kken|4 years ago|reply
Notable fabs in Dresden: Globalfoundries, Infineon, Bosch (recently opened), X-Fab, First Sensor, Plastic Logic (now defunct). May be noteworthy that some of these fabs are among the semi fabs with the highest degree of automotation world wide.
Add to this many bigger and smaller suppliers, universities, reasearch institutes and so on.
https://www.silicon-saxony.de/nc/en/members/sorted-by-alphab...
There are also plenty of Fabs in other parts of Germany: Infineon, Bosch, Nexperia, TDK, Osram, TI, X-Fab, Vishay, Elmos and some I forgot probably.
There are also many design companies. Especially noteworthy is probably Apples modem team that keep growing and growing...
CERN certainly stimulates some semi research, but it is rather specialized.
[+] [-] gsnedders|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Panoramix|4 years ago|reply
My guess would be this is more about diversifying. I think it makes a lot of sense to have factories in the US, Europe and Asia, especially given China's stance on Taiwan.
[+] [-] spaniard89277|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zz865|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] depereo|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rurban|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ipnon|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grlass|4 years ago|reply
"The mirrors guiding this light, made of sandwiched layers of silicon and molybdenum, are ground so precisely that, if scaled to the size of Germany, they would have no bumps bigger than a millimetre" <https://www.economist.com/business/2020/02/29/how-asml-becam...>
[+] [-] tester34|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] openandshut|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] polskibus|4 years ago|reply
I wonder if this media noise is more to do with negotiation tactics than with real intentions.
[+] [-] rossdavidh|4 years ago|reply
This doesn't mean that it's not _also_ intended to help with negotiations, of course. It can be both true, and stated out loud for the purpose of seeing what other offers come up.
[+] [-] shoto_io|4 years ago|reply
and for that they need to amplify the smallest signal into a trend! I mean noise…
[+] [-] mm983|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gfiorav|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alexanderklein|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChemSpider|4 years ago|reply
For this kind of automated high-tech manufacturing, nobody cares about salaries. They are <<1% of the cost.
[+] [-] odiroot|4 years ago|reply
One great thing about Germany is the central location within EU with good logistics overall. Not sure it matters for semiconductor manufacturing.
[+] [-] martin_a|4 years ago|reply
I'd really love to see more high-tech companies invest here, after we've managed to kill the solar companies... :-/
[+] [-] hans1729|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] raverbashing|4 years ago|reply
So it would be natural that it ends on the countries with existing factories and expertise.
The German (or even we might say, "north-european") self-deprecation gets old sometimes...
[+] [-] cpach|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sveme|4 years ago|reply
Remember, grass is always greener on the other side.
[+] [-] RustyConsul|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] lazyjones|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emsy|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jansan|4 years ago|reply
I am very sceptical regarding the plans of Intel, but the TSMC plan sounds promising. If I were to decide, I would build a factory in Saxonia near Dresden. People there are traditionally inventive, labor costs are far lower than in the Munich region, and there is a lot of skill available due to the previous AMD investments.
Link to article: https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/mensch-metropole/chipfabrik-...
[+] [-] NicoJuicy|4 years ago|reply
Germany is relatively close to both.
[+] [-] xadhominemx|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] flavius29663|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cbmuser|4 years ago|reply
> https://www.statista.com/statistics/263492/electricity-price...
[+] [-] geff82|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] Havoc|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LatteLazy|4 years ago|reply
Germany seems like exactly the place I'd look for a highly educated workforce and one with a strong engineering culture. AND a place where workers will stay for a lifetime not just jump ship every 24months or take a fat cheque from China to move there and build them a TSCM copy.
I'd be more worried about German pollution, health and safety etc laws, as this is a dirty industry. And I'd be more worried about getting a big chunk of land and planning permission.
[+] [-] lonelyasacloud|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nsonha|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dirtyid|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bogomipz|4 years ago|reply
>"TSMC supplies chips to almost all the key global chip developers, from Apple, Qualcomm and Advanced Microelectronics Devices to Intel, Infineon and Sony."
When exactly did Intel become a customer of TSMC? Is this for a recent process technology or is this only for specific types of chips? I under the impression Intel chips always came from their own fabs.
[+] [-] greeee32|4 years ago|reply