[stevenjohns]

That's ridiculously short sighted and bordering on racist.

Let's bomb all of Israel's infrastructure, arm various militias in the country and put economic sanctions on them for 20 years that limits the country to a grain-for-food programme and you'll quickly see Israel join in as a regional "basketcase."

[DSingularity]

It’s not “bordering” on racist - it is racist! It is sad to see this dehumanization towards Arabs from this community. Posters like this show that they believe that maintaining and increasing US hegemony at the expense of third world peoples is moral.

[pasabagi]

I never said I agreed with US policy. I just think this is the main reason why US policy is how it is. If you don't understand why people do things, you can't convince them to do otherwise.

[jamra]

Israel consists largely of Arabs as well. Half of the Jewish population is Arabic just like me.

[pasabagi]

I agree. I just think if I was working for the US state department, and I was sizing up various countries around the middle east to build a partnership with, I would choose Israel every time. The only country that comes close is Turkey, and they have coups every couple of decades.

I think the reasons why the ME is so unstable are a bit complex, but it's also not really relevant. If you're interested in a stable regional partner, the reasons why a given country is unstable is not really something you care about.

[stevenjohns]

Considering that the only metric for supporting a Middle Eastern group is that they have to be pro-Israel, of course Israel becomes the natural choice. It’s not about stability considering that Israel is a constant powder keg. That in itself is just the catch-22 of US foreign policy in the Middle East.

The right decision - if you had the best interests for the US and the region - is to completely withdraw. Any other decision leads to more conflict and hostile and opportunist groups (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Russia, et al) growing in influence with every passing moment.

[DSingularity]

The ME is unstable by design. Why dance around the subject? The US supports anti-democratic dictatorships in the countries it controls.

Guess what comes with unpopular regimes? Perpetual instability due to oppressed populations. In the countries that are not controlled the US supports any group willing to fight the government — sometimes with arms and other times with endless cash to fight the government within the framework of democracy. You think either of those actions support stability?

[yyyk]

> That's ridiculously short sighted and bordering on racist.

Now, here's a true, actual, case of using accusations of racism to avoid criticism. The post you responded to said nothing about guilt.

You could (absurdly) blame the West entirely for the region's state - but most ME countries are still basketcases regardless of who's fault it is (and plenty of it obviously goes to the locals, e.g. Lebanon being a great example of a country mostly ruined by local and regional actors).

[stevenjohns]

Lebanon is quite possibly the worst example you could give, not only due to Israel playing a key role in the country's instability[0] but also to the fact that the areas that were shielded by Israel and the West were immediately experienced economic and political stability[1].

Israel in and of itself is a "basketcase" country that continues to operate the world's largest open-air prison, flaunting every international directive with complete disregard for the UN and operates an apartheid-like system that sees it constantly at war with almost every other nation in the Middle East. It has been entrenched in civil war since its inception but somehow that's not enough to be considered a "basketcase" -- apparently.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_Southern...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Fence

[myth_drannon]

Actually that's what was done to Israel since its inception. Steel forged in fire.

[stevenjohns]

No, sorry, you don’t get it to lump the Jewish people into this. It’s incredibly dishonest on your part to even go in that direction and you should feel embarrassment for trying to steer it towards that.

[pasabagi]

This is the other thing: the US backed Israel because Israel was strong; Israel was not strong because the US backed them.

At the end of the mandate period, Israel was the only country in the region with a real military, because the UK had just spent the last decade training and arming that military.

At the time, the US was virulently antisemitic (see McCarthy era stuff for examples), as was most of europe.