[pyninja]

Werkzeug and WebOb are not what I'm trying to do.

I'm reposting a reply I made earlier to irahul:

Pump aims to replace WSGI entirely. That is, I believe it does a better job of what WSGI was intended to do.

I understand your point that web developers don't necessarily work with WSGI on a day-to-day basis. But if you look at the Ruby web community, Rack middlewares are much more prevalent than WSGI middlewares. Application developers (as opposed to framework developers) often add functionality as a Rack middleware, so that it can be reused in different applications, even using different frameworks. Why isn't that happening with Python as much? In the Python world, instead of writing even simple middlewares to for basic functionality like https://github.com/adeel/pump/blob/master/pump/middleware/pa... or https://github.com/adeel/pump/blob/master/pump/middleware/co..., every framework ends up reimplementing it. I believe this is because the WSGI API is ugly and not as easy to understand as it could be (just look at the average WSGI middleware).

[justin_vanw]

What middleware do you think are missing? In general, stuffing application logic into middleware leads to problems, so I don't think your premise is sound.

http://dirtsimple.org/2007/02/wsgi-middleware-considered-har...

I think your approach is harmful and will put developers who use this library in a very bad situation. You are putting a simplifying abstraction on top of HTTP. As with all simplifications, things which do fit perfectly in your tool become very easy, and things that don't fit perfectly become completely impossible.

Finally, I stand by my argument. Werkzeug and WebOb let you put the exact kind of simple interface on top of WSGI that you are attempting to, but with the benefits of not restricting you to a subset of HTTP, and interoperability with awesome tools like mod_wsgi.

[clarkevans]

If you are really seeking to replace WSGI, then I'd encourage you do a bit more research, write a specification, get at least one more implementation, and then submit it as a PEP.

Documenting at this level is challenging & rewarding. The hard part about specification work, beyond explaining the design and providing adequate justification, is getting consensus. By doing so, you'll learn quite a bit, open yourself up for critique, and in the end perhaps provide a credible alternative.

[pyninja]

I'd like to do that, but I'm afraid of how much time and effort it would take. I really just wrote Pump/Picasso to use at our new startup, Beagle (http://beagleapp.com). I was expecting roughly this kind of response from the Python community, but who knows, maybe someone will use it.

[Confusion]

I think the pertinent question here is: what do you think 'WSGI was intended to do.'? From the responses here, it seems your answer to that question is a distinct subset of what WSGI actually intends to do. Which is why Pump offers only a subset of the abilities of, for instance, Werkzeug.

[mkramlich]

I'm pretty sure the plural of middleware is middleware.