[axguscbklp]

>There's been a lot of research, and internal studies, done at many companies that show pretty impressive benefits.

I would need to look at the research and studies to see whether I actually believe them. I have seen how politicized and tribal technical decisions can become at a company and can easily imagine that there might be confounding variables.

>When really questioned most engineers just say "I know my code works" or "I test my code, I don't need automated tests". That's the mentality I just don't understand.

If I do not write automated tests and then my code works fine in production 95% of the time, and out of the 5% of the time that it breaks, 99% of the time it is a problem that is easily fixed and causes no major problems, and even the few major problems are of the "lose a manageable amount of money" kind and not the "people get injured or killed" kind - meanwhile if, on the other hand, writing automated tests would add 50% more effort to my work - then the cost/benefit analysis might suggest that I should not write automated tests. Keep in mind that I could spend that 50% more effort instead doing things that will make my code less likely to break but that are not automated testing. "not adding automated testing" is not the same thing as "not doing anything that will make the code less likely to break".

>If it "makes things hard to change" just delete the test? You'll still get the benefit of knowing XYZ are broken/altered.

If I delete the test then I will have wasted part of the effort that went into writing it. Usually when I change code I already know that things will work differently afterward and that things might break, so this would not tell me anything I did not already know.

>You can also automate end-to-end and black box tests which should absolutely not require any modification if you're just refactoring.

Agreed - I am much more friendly towards end-to-end tests than towards unit tests. I still would not advocate them dogmatically, but I find them to be more useful than unit tests.

>If you are working something that is allowed to fail, then sure, you don't really need to care about what practices you do. It's a very end-all-be-all argument to say "it's ok for my things to break". That argument goes just the same for all of these things:

I think that you might be seeing things in too binary a way. The vast majority of software products are allowed to fail, but not all of them are allowed to fail to the same degree. The practices do matter and there is no one-size-fits-all approach to testing. The context matters. What rate of failure is acceptable such that to try to prevent failure beyond that rate would actually be counterproductive? What specific impacts would more vs. less testing have on the development process? How do the relevant pros and cons fit into the overall goal of the organization? Etc.

I am not saying "it's ok for my things to break", nor are probably most people who question automated testing dogma saying "it's ok for my things to break". We are saying that there are tradeoffs. Sometimes adding more automated testing does not actually add value. Again, it depends on the exact context.

Regarding the rest of what you wrote: I am not disputing that automated testing can bring lots of benefits. I am just saying that I think some people are too dogmatic about it, see it too much as a magic pill, push for its use too broadly, and do not take the relevant tradeoffs sufficiently into account.