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BadInformatics | 4 years ago

Trying to interpret individual radicals of a character as standalone components using their original meaning is enticing, but more often than not incorrect. For example, the character for maternal aunt uses the same radical. Phonetic-semantic compound characters are very, very, common. The standalone pronunciation of 夷 doesn't appear to have turkic/steppe origins either [1].

Moreover, we know Mongolian writing (because of the geopolitics of the time and its status as a younger written tradition) borrowed quite liberally from its southern neighbours. Including, but not limited to, China [2]. So while Wagner's point about proliferation of ironmaking techniques from outside the (nominal) Chinese state at the time makes sense, the whole phonetic angle doesn't.

As for the points about centralization and family name elitism, the first lasted less than 200 years, by which time many formerly aristocratic family names had become _so_ diluted so as to be almost meaningless. One of the main conceits of a major character in RoTK is that he's an average Joe who only gets a modicum of respect for having the same surname as the dynastic family. It also completely ignores the existence of profession-based surnames like 匠 ("artisan", notably 1/2 of 铁匠/blacksmith).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongyi#Yi [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_writing_systems

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gradschoolfail|4 years ago

Notably? I would say “artisan” is too broad and “carpenter” is the usual meaning. the profession based surnames are far from being dominant either compared to smith, which almost always means blacksmith in the west.

While surnames are diluted this kind of “joke” about surnames still exists today, so there is at least some meaning

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_family_(Internet_slang)

FWIW according to Baidu wiki the character yi itself has a nomadic origin.

https://baike.baidu.com/item/夷/678050