It's funny how every society has its own way of mistreating children, yet never considers it a problem at the time. We look at the ways children were harmed and exploited throughout history and shake our heads at how our morally underdeveloped forebears could be so cruel and misguided. Then we turn around and declare that our children have no right whatsoever to privacy, and that everything they read and write should be surveilled 24/7 by teams of strangers, for their "own good".
I firmly believe that a hundred years, people will look back on practices like this and shake their heads at the appalling attitudes their primitive ancestors had towards children. But I imagine that's little comfort to the kids subject to this kind of abuse.
I strongly agree with your entire comment. That said, I think this:
> that everything they read and write should be surveilled 24/7 by teams of strangers, for their "own good"
Are actually two separate problems with our society.
Problem 1: denying privacy to children, various forms of helicopter parenting. This you've covered, and I agree this is our era's way of mistreating children.
Problem 2: "by team of strangers". as a Service. This is a much broader topic to cover it all here, but constrained to the context of data processing and children - social-wide, we're too eager to entrust sensitive matters to random strangers, giving them too much leeway, as if they weren't incentivized to abuse it in every way they can get away with.
People are having ridiculously inconsistent "trust functions" here. You wouldn't give this level of access to a small shop from your neighborhood that offered you a service, but you give it to a random tech startup from far away, just because the guy looks kind of creepy and the startup has a shiny web page. Even though a realistic threat model would suggest the former can be trusted way more than the latter (less incentives and less capability to screw you over, and they live near you). It's like most people can't internalize the lesson, even though they're being repeatedly screwed over by almost every business they interact with.
What pisses me off more, is when it's the other party that inserts some third parties into the process. When you have a kid attending a school, there's a degree of trust and responsibility shared between you and the school. But then the school outsources data management or remote learning to some random vendors, vendors who absolutely cannot be trusted. And as a parent, you can't do much about it.
One day in the future people will look back at our times and think about all of us and most of the market the way we today think about literal snake oil salesmen and people duped by them.
I trust the more important problem is education of kids, kids will not always grow and become a virtuous guy. they need help and teach, but now parents even argue to teacher for let their do not need to write homework...
This has nothing to do with the rights of children. This is about the school system as an ever present overbearing parent in place of the Childs real parents.
Children do not have the right to privacy they are not adults.
I wonder how much harm the constant surveillance does.
We are training kids that someone is always watching. That they have to censor their thoughts and hold in their feelings rather than talk about them with others for fear of it being determined to be 'wrong'. How many of these kids will be suspended, expelled, medicated, etc for things that were harmless? I think this surveillance will cause these kids to be less independent and delay their maturation because it's safer to do what you're told, not explore questions you have, and suppress your opinions.
The number of conversations I had in school that would have gotten me I'm trouble today would be a lot. I would guess they would have expelled me for some of it, even though it was totally harmless.
Where is the cost benefit analysis? Or is this just another 'common sense' solution because 'think of the children'?
I often think about this in regards to rules enforcement... as we get better and better at catching rule breakers because of increased surveillance, we run into an issue where the rules do not make sense anymore.
This is because our current rules were designed for a world with worse enforcement. Take, for example, the speed limit and ticket costs. Both the speed limit and price of a ticket for breaking the speed limit were set for a world of imperfect enforcement. We assume someone who is pulled over for speeding was probably speeding many times before they were pulled over, so we have the penalty set relatively high. The penalty was not designed to be given every time someone goes 2 MPH over the speed limit.
We really need to rethink the rules if we drastically change enforcement.
> We are training kids that someone is always watching. That they have to censor their thoughts and hold in their feelings rather than talk about them with others for fear of it being determined to be 'wrong'.
This isn’t entirely new. Without context you could be describing many religions.
Parents should just take their children out of school, and home school or 'unschool' them.
Regarding your question, this is an example of people choosing to do something because they can and not because they should. In fact, the surveillance is likely a violation of the 4th Amendment of the US Bill of Rights.
> We are training kids that someone is always watching.
This probably goes down better in religious societies. It used to be that this "someone" was an amorphous deity. A child was constantly told they are under the watchful eye of someone-up-there.
Now it's the outsourced, underpaid Creepy Joe from this week's surveillance technology company.
This is pretty outrageous. This constant need to fully control and monitor everything your kids are doing is getting out of hand and will by itself lead to severe problems and mental issues for the future generations.
I mean, who didnt share or look at some porn when they were 10 years old? Would it be worth it for a whole army of teachers and consultants to descend on you and file an “incident report” and a “follow up” and “de brief” for this? What a colossal waste of resources and money. The $300k for the software could be better spent elsewhere.
And yes, one suicide was apparently prevented, but then here we are again at the same argument, its like the one in the current apple/child porn case.
Should we all get monitored just because of one positive but disproportionately small outcome?
It's the digitization of the mindset where parents wouldn't let their kids go a mile to the park alone, or go play with a friend on the next block, etc. By the way, there's an app called life360 that's increasingly popular with parents of high school kids. It tracks the user everywhere, monitors driving speed, that sort of thing, so the parents can observe their children at all times. Some have even demanded that their children continue using it in college. It's a goddamn digital panopticon and it needs to stop.
If all citizens were locked away in a padded cell, the government would prevent all homicide, overdoses, rape, etc. Just because something prevents a suicide doesn't make it a good thing. I know you're saying the same thing, I'm just putting it more starkly.
There are other ways of preventing suicide, homicide, overdoses, rape, etc, which don't violate privacy, security, etc.
Well said. Also, the whole argument of "one bad thing prevented" is fundamentally flawed. It is not possible to evaluate how many bad things it causes, because, unless somehow clear enough for our dumb human observational skills, those are brushed under "would have happened anyways".
If schools and governments wanted to help prevent suicides, the answer isn't difficult. You try to improve social security, and otherwise make an effort to foster safe environments.
Stranger monitoring everything you do and might punish you for it... is exactly the opposite.
Right before COVID hit, I called my local school system out for installing spyware on my son and daughter's chromebooks. These were not provided by the school, they were bought by me. The spyware included a keylogger, something that forwarded every URL requested, a screenshotter, and a popunder autoclicker (yes, ad fraud).
After a few emails back and forth, I sent one in demanding to see a search warrant and to know what horrible behavior the school believed gave them the right to search my computer. About 10 minutes later the spyware was removed from my son's school Chrome account and I got a call from the school system CIO who was making extra-sure I wasn't going to take further legal action.
My school district issues Chromebooks (mandatory).
Buried in the school usage guide/hand-out is a paragraph that states that the school reserves the right to enable the microphone and camera at any time, with no warning or notice required by the school faculty.
It’s ridiculous and I’m not sure I can do anything about it.
At the very least you could make sure the device is powered down when not in use.
A piece of tape over the camera would solve about half of the problem, and is just a good idea in general.
If you want to be a bit more paranoid, set up a separate network for the school-issued devices, and turn those networks off except during school hours.
Or, if you're looking for a social solution, print out thay paragraph, take it to the next meeting of the school board, and demand to know why they want to record your child while they're getting out of the shower. These devices will be in children's bedrooms the majority of the time, and if they can record at any time, with no warning, they will record images that would be considered by many to be very illegal.
> Buried in the school usage guide/hand-out is a paragraph that states that the school reserves the right to enable the microphone and camera at any time, with no warning or notice required by the school faculty.
A few years ago there were cases of cameras being enabled by faculty who observed teenagers in their bedrooms, doing something or another, I can't remember if there were salacious details (nudity, sex?) involved - but it was a scandal at the time. Now it's normal?
Make sure every single parent and child knows about this paragraph. And the name of every individual that put it there. At every school meeting, ask them why that paragraph is buried, instead of prominently displayed on the laptop itself. Ask them to install cameras in their homes, controlled by you.
Don't allow it in the house while not in use specifically for school. Keep it in a faraday cage at the least. All sorts of ways of combating this type of bullshit, and it's also a teachable moment for your kids. The problem is this is similar behavior to those wearing tinfoil hats. What used to be signs of crazy are now normal day things.
For your own kids, how about this? Open up the Chromebook and disconnect the camera and mic. Get USB ones that can be plugged in when needed for Zoom lessons and then unplugged immediately afterwards. Reconnect the built-in ones right before you return it.
It could be illegal in some states. For example, if it records people in a private setting who did not consent, like relatives.
I absolutely hate the mandatory use of laptops and such below high school level. I think our local district is starting it in 5th or 6th grade. Granted the school also whitelists what snacks are allowed, down to what brand of chips, and completely disallows things like meat and cheese...
It is the chance of a lifetime to teach your child valuable lessons that they absolutely will need for the futre.
Seperation of work/school time and device with personal. They should use their school device for school stuff and when they finish their work for the day, power it off and move to their personal life.
Is that not just for accessibility though? Surely the more affluent kids just use their own, more powerful computers for homework. I'm guessing the Chromebooks are just for the lower-class kids. I could be wrong though.
What scares me is that this is a generation of kids that have been broken and domesticated. For whom tyranny is normal and natural. What happens when they are grown up and put in charge?
I'd be interested to see a study for a link between the suicide rate and the degree of surveillance in one's life, separated from the influence of the social networks that already has been studied.
It seems to be quite obvious that the lack of personal space would cause or exacerbate the mental issues. However, the modern society tends to ignore the problems that cannot be easily tracked or assigned a metric.
Why do we complain only when it's done to children?
I'll never have an open mic installed in my house (alexa, google etc...)
Yet it seems the generation of young engineers that built these things sees nothing wrong with them. Why? Maybe, because they had helicopter parents and were chaperoned and supervised 100% of the time during their childhoods.
They have grown to see surveillance as inherently benign, because during their entire childhood they were surveiled by well meaning adults.
> In emails and chat messages, students discussed violent impulses, eating disorders, abuse at home, bouts of depression and, as one student put it, “ending my life.”
Of course the email and chat apps had prominent "Your messages may be monitored, including by your teachers" notifications, right? Kids weren't misled into thinking their private conversations were private, right?
Mentor: "Hi! This is your mentor. We've noticed that you're suicidal, depressed, paranoid and generally not doing that well."
Student: "How do you know that?"
Mentor: "Oh, we've been monitoring everything you chat about with your friends and family. So we basically know all your secrets, if you've chatted about them in the past 1.5 years."
Has any spy tech ever left? I remember vaguely some public discussion about CCTV somewhere in the mid 90s and now I live safely in the knowledge that I can be tracked 24/7 whenever I enter the city.
I firmly believe that one of our greatest current failures as a society is the extent with which we completely accept these types of dystopic conditions - every single action we take and word we type is surveilled, permanently stored with zero recourse, analyzed or blocked by untransparent third-party data leviathans that share few of our own interests, and often sold, shared, and completely neglected while data breaches happen en masse. Not only do we have virtually no ability to opt out of this, but these practices now begin the moment someone is born.
When I was younger I spent a lot of my time advocating for privacy, informing people of how bad the state of surveillance was, how bad it would be in the future, and what we could do to improve things. Eventually this turned out to be very bad for my mental health, because I not only realized most people didn't give a shit, but also that no matter what I did, I had no power to improve things by what felt like a even single epsilon.
With the advances we're making in hardware and machine learning, I think we are setting ourselves up for future disasters that we have barely begun to imagine - our entire society's communications and thoughts are owned by everyone except ourselves, and our ability to analyze, predict, and censor the populace with this extreme centralization of power and data is currently being scaled up even more by every tech/ad/communications corporation (and government) in the world.
I still try to do what I can, but it feels like I'm able to do less and less with each passing year; I am constantly forced to use products and services that do terrible things with the data they collect on me, yet it is increasingly becoming something outside of my control. Perhaps this makes it obvious why normal people rarely try to use privacy-preserving software and practices: they recognize how difficult and hopeless the endeavor is, and they'd rather not dedicate their lives to such an impossible feat such as communicating privately with their friends and family. The only things I can really hope for here is that we get an actual data protection law or basic consumer bill of rights in countries like the US, but I don't see this happening any time soon.
I also predict that the general populace will recognize the vast importance of this issue in the future (whether that is +5 or +30 years, I have no clue), but likely only after some very terrible events occur (it would seem the current state of advertisements, data breaches, mass surveillance, and censorship is nowhere near what it will take). This comment turned out to be more negative and hopeless than I had wanted, so I'll add that I also donated to the EFF - they seem to be pretty principled and helpful in this area, and they also sent me a cool T-shirt. I'm fortunate that I'm able to use software like Signal/IRC/Matrix with my close friends, but I wish that everyone else could be given the right of private self-expression and communiucation as well.
One line near the beginning stands out to me though.
"...that monitors students’ school-issued Google and Microsoft accounts."
This is activity within an account that was intended for school use, or possibly, on a school issued computer. There should be an expectation of some level of lack of privacy within those areas.
If they want privacy from the school, use an account or computer the school didn't give them. Yes, some people may not have the resources to get their own. But that doesn't mean the school has to let them do anything they want on the the resource that the did give them.
This is probably one of the few bad thing about Covid that impacts me. Stuff like that makes me think really hard whether home schooling is a viable option for me to avoid a good chunk of this.
Sounds like a great (after-school) opportunity to teach kids how to combat a surveillance state. An education they'll use when they're adults, imagine that!
Interesting that HN is up in arms about this but I’d imagine most still use Google which spies on our kids in order to sell them stuff and manipulate their behavior.
Why do we just accept that porn is being peddled to 10 year olds?
I don’t know if Gaggle is the right approach but they’re at least attempting to help our kids while most of Silicon Valley is just trying to monetize them.
Stepping on our rights, invading our privacy, forcing us to do various things that we would rather not do - to protect us - for our health - for the public welfare.
They need to change their tune. This one is getting really really old. Like at least 80 years old. Maybe older.
[+] [-] stupidcar|4 years ago|reply
I firmly believe that a hundred years, people will look back on practices like this and shake their heads at the appalling attitudes their primitive ancestors had towards children. But I imagine that's little comfort to the kids subject to this kind of abuse.
[+] [-] TeMPOraL|4 years ago|reply
> that everything they read and write should be surveilled 24/7 by teams of strangers, for their "own good"
Are actually two separate problems with our society.
Problem 1: denying privacy to children, various forms of helicopter parenting. This you've covered, and I agree this is our era's way of mistreating children.
Problem 2: "by team of strangers". as a Service. This is a much broader topic to cover it all here, but constrained to the context of data processing and children - social-wide, we're too eager to entrust sensitive matters to random strangers, giving them too much leeway, as if they weren't incentivized to abuse it in every way they can get away with.
People are having ridiculously inconsistent "trust functions" here. You wouldn't give this level of access to a small shop from your neighborhood that offered you a service, but you give it to a random tech startup from far away, just because the guy looks kind of creepy and the startup has a shiny web page. Even though a realistic threat model would suggest the former can be trusted way more than the latter (less incentives and less capability to screw you over, and they live near you). It's like most people can't internalize the lesson, even though they're being repeatedly screwed over by almost every business they interact with.
What pisses me off more, is when it's the other party that inserts some third parties into the process. When you have a kid attending a school, there's a degree of trust and responsibility shared between you and the school. But then the school outsources data management or remote learning to some random vendors, vendors who absolutely cannot be trusted. And as a parent, you can't do much about it.
One day in the future people will look back at our times and think about all of us and most of the market the way we today think about literal snake oil salesmen and people duped by them.
[+] [-] pomian|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JumpCrisscross|4 years ago|reply
I am unsurprised that the Minneapolis public school system deploys Gaggle while New York private schools implement no-screen policies.
[+] [-] samstave|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] popcube|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] petermcneeley|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] giantg2|4 years ago|reply
We are training kids that someone is always watching. That they have to censor their thoughts and hold in their feelings rather than talk about them with others for fear of it being determined to be 'wrong'. How many of these kids will be suspended, expelled, medicated, etc for things that were harmless? I think this surveillance will cause these kids to be less independent and delay their maturation because it's safer to do what you're told, not explore questions you have, and suppress your opinions.
The number of conversations I had in school that would have gotten me I'm trouble today would be a lot. I would guess they would have expelled me for some of it, even though it was totally harmless.
Where is the cost benefit analysis? Or is this just another 'common sense' solution because 'think of the children'?
[+] [-] cortesoft|4 years ago|reply
This is because our current rules were designed for a world with worse enforcement. Take, for example, the speed limit and ticket costs. Both the speed limit and price of a ticket for breaking the speed limit were set for a world of imperfect enforcement. We assume someone who is pulled over for speeding was probably speeding many times before they were pulled over, so we have the penalty set relatively high. The penalty was not designed to be given every time someone goes 2 MPH over the speed limit.
We really need to rethink the rules if we drastically change enforcement.
[+] [-] 123pie123|4 years ago|reply
take that away and they'll make mistakes as adults with more serious consequences
[+] [-] hattar|4 years ago|reply
This isn’t entirely new. Without context you could be describing many religions.
[+] [-] itronitron|4 years ago|reply
Regarding your question, this is an example of people choosing to do something because they can and not because they should. In fact, the surveillance is likely a violation of the 4th Amendment of the US Bill of Rights.
[+] [-] bostik|4 years ago|reply
This probably goes down better in religious societies. It used to be that this "someone" was an amorphous deity. A child was constantly told they are under the watchful eye of someone-up-there.
Now it's the outsourced, underpaid Creepy Joe from this week's surveillance technology company.
[+] [-] notsureaboutpg|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tacker2000|4 years ago|reply
I mean, who didnt share or look at some porn when they were 10 years old? Would it be worth it for a whole army of teachers and consultants to descend on you and file an “incident report” and a “follow up” and “de brief” for this? What a colossal waste of resources and money. The $300k for the software could be better spent elsewhere.
And yes, one suicide was apparently prevented, but then here we are again at the same argument, its like the one in the current apple/child porn case.
Should we all get monitored just because of one positive but disproportionately small outcome?
[+] [-] collegeburner|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] auslegung|4 years ago|reply
There are other ways of preventing suicide, homicide, overdoses, rape, etc, which don't violate privacy, security, etc.
[+] [-] whiddershins|4 years ago|reply
I’m not sure there is gain in normalizing this.
[+] [-] okamiueru|4 years ago|reply
If schools and governments wanted to help prevent suicides, the answer isn't difficult. You try to improve social security, and otherwise make an effort to foster safe environments.
Stranger monitoring everything you do and might punish you for it... is exactly the opposite.
[+] [-] TedDoesntTalk|4 years ago|reply
Me.
[+] [-] indymike|4 years ago|reply
After a few emails back and forth, I sent one in demanding to see a search warrant and to know what horrible behavior the school believed gave them the right to search my computer. About 10 minutes later the spyware was removed from my son's school Chrome account and I got a call from the school system CIO who was making extra-sure I wasn't going to take further legal action.
[+] [-] giantg2|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nobodyandproud|4 years ago|reply
Buried in the school usage guide/hand-out is a paragraph that states that the school reserves the right to enable the microphone and camera at any time, with no warning or notice required by the school faculty.
It’s ridiculous and I’m not sure I can do anything about it.
[+] [-] thomascgalvin|4 years ago|reply
A piece of tape over the camera would solve about half of the problem, and is just a good idea in general.
If you want to be a bit more paranoid, set up a separate network for the school-issued devices, and turn those networks off except during school hours.
Or, if you're looking for a social solution, print out thay paragraph, take it to the next meeting of the school board, and demand to know why they want to record your child while they're getting out of the shower. These devices will be in children's bedrooms the majority of the time, and if they can record at any time, with no warning, they will record images that would be considered by many to be very illegal.
[+] [-] no_butterscotch|4 years ago|reply
A few years ago there were cases of cameras being enabled by faculty who observed teenagers in their bedrooms, doing something or another, I can't remember if there were salacious details (nudity, sex?) involved - but it was a scandal at the time. Now it's normal?
[+] [-] chuckee|4 years ago|reply
Make sure every single parent and child knows about this paragraph. And the name of every individual that put it there. At every school meeting, ask them why that paragraph is buried, instead of prominently displayed on the laptop itself. Ask them to install cameras in their homes, controlled by you.
[+] [-] dylan604|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] josephcsible|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] giantg2|4 years ago|reply
I absolutely hate the mandatory use of laptops and such below high school level. I think our local district is starting it in 5th or 6th grade. Granted the school also whitelists what snacks are allowed, down to what brand of chips, and completely disallows things like meat and cheese...
[+] [-] blitzar|4 years ago|reply
Seperation of work/school time and device with personal. They should use their school device for school stuff and when they finish their work for the day, power it off and move to their personal life.
[+] [-] literallyaduck|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] literallyaduck|4 years ago|reply
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/privacy/goog...
[+] [-] dystopiabreaker|4 years ago|reply
Not only does this stop the surveillance, it also brings to light the issue and those who may be abusing it.
[+] [-] walshemj|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jimbob45|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fmakunbound|4 years ago|reply
The road to a totalitarian state is probably paved with this kind of save the kids shit.
[+] [-] aslfdfhsd498|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lykahb|4 years ago|reply
It seems to be quite obvious that the lack of personal space would cause or exacerbate the mental issues. However, the modern society tends to ignore the problems that cannot be easily tracked or assigned a metric.
[+] [-] gerbilly|4 years ago|reply
I'll never have an open mic installed in my house (alexa, google etc...)
Yet it seems the generation of young engineers that built these things sees nothing wrong with them. Why? Maybe, because they had helicopter parents and were chaperoned and supervised 100% of the time during their childhoods.
They have grown to see surveillance as inherently benign, because during their entire childhood they were surveiled by well meaning adults.
[+] [-] chuckee|4 years ago|reply
Of course the email and chat apps had prominent "Your messages may be monitored, including by your teachers" notifications, right? Kids weren't misled into thinking their private conversations were private, right?
[+] [-] BurnGpuBurn|4 years ago|reply
Mentor: "Hi! This is your mentor. We've noticed that you're suicidal, depressed, paranoid and generally not doing that well."
Student: "How do you know that?"
Mentor: "Oh, we've been monitoring everything you chat about with your friends and family. So we basically know all your secrets, if you've chatted about them in the past 1.5 years."
Student: shoots herself.
[+] [-] MomoXenosaga|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ve55|4 years ago|reply
When I was younger I spent a lot of my time advocating for privacy, informing people of how bad the state of surveillance was, how bad it would be in the future, and what we could do to improve things. Eventually this turned out to be very bad for my mental health, because I not only realized most people didn't give a shit, but also that no matter what I did, I had no power to improve things by what felt like a even single epsilon.
With the advances we're making in hardware and machine learning, I think we are setting ourselves up for future disasters that we have barely begun to imagine - our entire society's communications and thoughts are owned by everyone except ourselves, and our ability to analyze, predict, and censor the populace with this extreme centralization of power and data is currently being scaled up even more by every tech/ad/communications corporation (and government) in the world.
I still try to do what I can, but it feels like I'm able to do less and less with each passing year; I am constantly forced to use products and services that do terrible things with the data they collect on me, yet it is increasingly becoming something outside of my control. Perhaps this makes it obvious why normal people rarely try to use privacy-preserving software and practices: they recognize how difficult and hopeless the endeavor is, and they'd rather not dedicate their lives to such an impossible feat such as communicating privately with their friends and family. The only things I can really hope for here is that we get an actual data protection law or basic consumer bill of rights in countries like the US, but I don't see this happening any time soon.
I also predict that the general populace will recognize the vast importance of this issue in the future (whether that is +5 or +30 years, I have no clue), but likely only after some very terrible events occur (it would seem the current state of advertisements, data breaches, mass surveillance, and censorship is nowhere near what it will take). This comment turned out to be more negative and hopeless than I had wanted, so I'll add that I also donated to the EFF - they seem to be pretty principled and helpful in this area, and they also sent me a cool T-shirt. I'm fortunate that I'm able to use software like Signal/IRC/Matrix with my close friends, but I wish that everyone else could be given the right of private self-expression and communiucation as well.
[+] [-] thekevan|4 years ago|reply
"...that monitors students’ school-issued Google and Microsoft accounts."
This is activity within an account that was intended for school use, or possibly, on a school issued computer. There should be an expectation of some level of lack of privacy within those areas.
If they want privacy from the school, use an account or computer the school didn't give them. Yes, some people may not have the resources to get their own. But that doesn't mean the school has to let them do anything they want on the the resource that the did give them.
[+] [-] A4ET8a8uTh0|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mLuby|4 years ago|reply
Sounds like a great (after-school) opportunity to teach kids how to combat a surveillance state. An education they'll use when they're adults, imagine that!
[+] [-] mavsman|4 years ago|reply
Why do we just accept that porn is being peddled to 10 year olds?
I don’t know if Gaggle is the right approach but they’re at least attempting to help our kids while most of Silicon Valley is just trying to monetize them.
[+] [-] itronitron|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] atok1|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] swayvil|4 years ago|reply
Stepping on our rights, invading our privacy, forcing us to do various things that we would rather not do - to protect us - for our health - for the public welfare.
They need to change their tune. This one is getting really really old. Like at least 80 years old. Maybe older.