> There were no red flags because I was so naive. But… there’s a ton of red flags [in retrospect]…. [For example] when you’re in the interview process and you’re talking about defending [the UAE] and … doing tracking of terrorist activity,… but then you’re [being asked] very specific questions about integrated enterprise Windows environments and [how you might hack them]. Guess who doesn’t have those type of networks? Terrorist organizations. So why [is the recruiter] asking these kinds of questions…?
> So had I been really cognizant of where or what I was stepping into, I probably would have known during even the interview process that something is a little bit amiss here.
Given the number of trainings that he would have attended while working at the NSA, I find it hard to believe that his OpSec radar wouldn't have been going off at that point.
Having read the remainder of the interview, IMO the entire series of events can be summarized as follows:
>Things were fishy from the start, but the compensation was good so I was happy to collect a paycheck until all plausible deniability went out the window. Knowing the gravy train wouldn't last forever and that the US govt would one day come knocking, I denied a position at DarkMatter and moved back to the states.
Must indeed have been quite naive, working for UAE, a dictatorship, where they still have what basically constitutes a modern form of slavery.
Perhaps not even former NSA employees are immune to the stuff influencers on social media pump out. Have a nice life in beautiful Abu Dhabi? Why not? It takes little to inform oneself about the country and the people in power though. I cannot understand, how one can move to another country and not look such stuff up. My guess about this is, that other people are simply way less hesitant to make such a move. Then of course there is the payment matter. With proper payment, perhaps we are willing to overlook certain things more easily or to not look too closely in the first place.
> Given the number of trainings that he would have attended while working at the NSA, I find it hard to believe that his OpSec radar wouldn't have been going off at that point.
These types of training tend to be very specific, and certainly do not involve questioning chain of command.
This is why he immediately noticed things like possible surveillance, but it took him much longer to question the mission and his commanding officer.
Bingo. This is essentially the "PR" cover story that all ousted government employees seem to use once they're caught out. "Oh, I didn't realize I was even working for a murderous regime! I liked the paycheck though!"
>Given the number of trainings that he would have attended while working at the NSA, I find it hard to believe that his OpSec radar wouldn't have been going off at that point.
I've seen a similar line of thinking with regard to federal employees (who should have known better) and were successfully recruited, but then later arrested. You have to wonder to what degree they're telling the truth, or to what degree they really had blinders due to being so successfully charmed. Either way, this is common. I think it's hard for people to say "yes, I knew deep down this was a problem but hoped it wasn't true somehow."
imho NSA people is technically skilled but politically naive... and that's clearly why they work for NSA in the first place...
Technical training can make you good a something, but it doesn't necessarily make you aware of why you are doing something and what are the political consequences.
That's why also social science education and critical thinking is needed... to avoid those kind of situations.
> Given the number of trainings that he would have attended while working at the NSA
Right, so he was used to doing sketchy things and not questioning the ethics of what his superiors told him to do, just the right kind/level of sketchy for the right people, and didn't realize this was going to be a different kind/level of sketchy that would ultimately make him uncomfortable.
Other leaders. Leaders who were coming to visit [UAE] sheiks...
“Thanks for coming. Just as a sign of our appreciation, here’s a bunch of stuff.” One of those things happened to be a laptop. We do know that they were turned on sometimes. What happened after that we don’t aways know the answers to.
Got to be some sort of basic rule of being a leader not to take electronics from a foreign government and turn it on - or even do more than accept it to be gracious and then ensure it never goes anywhere near you.
Even at work we are not allowed to accept electronics from other companies.
I can’t imagine government officials or security people of a country using a full blown laptop provided by the government officials or security people of other countries!
Given that decades ago, the Russians embedded completely passive microphones inside paintings and have them as gifts, undetectable to most equipment…yeah a full blown laptop should almost be an admission that “hey we’re trying to bug you”.
Yeah, this is absolutely insane. I worked briefly for an eastern european government (low level person, def not a senior official) and they even warned against having certain foreign apps on your personal/work mobile device. I don't remember them ever explicitly mentioning not to take and use electronics from a foreign government, probably because they thought it was so obvious it wouldn't be worth mentioning!
I just looked up the link to share this, but you already got to it so I’m going to sell Darknet Diaries to y’all.
This podcast series is one of my favorites. It some how manages to find a balance between being technical and accessible to the average person. Jack Resider is a great story teller. The level of care and detail they put into their research is incredible and they share the primary sources if you want to go even deeper.
If you like podcasts, give this a listen. Physical pentest episodes are my favorite.
Quite the opposite.
The NSA would not provide the type of training that would make its own employees question the NSA itself, I'm sure you receive the exact amount of training to do your job and not more.
We're not. There was huge outrage when the Snowden documents were released, and the warrantless surveillance program was judged to be unconstitutional in 2020.
[+] [-] noptd|4 years ago|reply
> So had I been really cognizant of where or what I was stepping into, I probably would have known during even the interview process that something is a little bit amiss here.
Given the number of trainings that he would have attended while working at the NSA, I find it hard to believe that his OpSec radar wouldn't have been going off at that point.
Having read the remainder of the interview, IMO the entire series of events can be summarized as follows:
>Things were fishy from the start, but the compensation was good so I was happy to collect a paycheck until all plausible deniability went out the window. Knowing the gravy train wouldn't last forever and that the US govt would one day come knocking, I denied a position at DarkMatter and moved back to the states.
[+] [-] zelphirkalt|4 years ago|reply
Perhaps not even former NSA employees are immune to the stuff influencers on social media pump out. Have a nice life in beautiful Abu Dhabi? Why not? It takes little to inform oneself about the country and the people in power though. I cannot understand, how one can move to another country and not look such stuff up. My guess about this is, that other people are simply way less hesitant to make such a move. Then of course there is the payment matter. With proper payment, perhaps we are willing to overlook certain things more easily or to not look too closely in the first place.
[+] [-] qeternity|4 years ago|reply
These types of training tend to be very specific, and certainly do not involve questioning chain of command.
This is why he immediately noticed things like possible surveillance, but it took him much longer to question the mission and his commanding officer.
[+] [-] BTCOG|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] everdrive|4 years ago|reply
I've seen a similar line of thinking with regard to federal employees (who should have known better) and were successfully recruited, but then later arrested. You have to wonder to what degree they're telling the truth, or to what degree they really had blinders due to being so successfully charmed. Either way, this is common. I think it's hard for people to say "yes, I knew deep down this was a problem but hoped it wasn't true somehow."
[+] [-] kome|4 years ago|reply
Technical training can make you good a something, but it doesn't necessarily make you aware of why you are doing something and what are the political consequences.
That's why also social science education and critical thinking is needed... to avoid those kind of situations.
[+] [-] jrochkind1|4 years ago|reply
Right, so he was used to doing sketchy things and not questioning the ethics of what his superiors told him to do, just the right kind/level of sketchy for the right people, and didn't realize this was going to be a different kind/level of sketchy that would ultimately make him uncomfortable.
[+] [-] docdeek|4 years ago|reply
Other leaders. Leaders who were coming to visit [UAE] sheiks... “Thanks for coming. Just as a sign of our appreciation, here’s a bunch of stuff.” One of those things happened to be a laptop. We do know that they were turned on sometimes. What happened after that we don’t aways know the answers to.
Got to be some sort of basic rule of being a leader not to take electronics from a foreign government and turn it on - or even do more than accept it to be gracious and then ensure it never goes anywhere near you.
[+] [-] aborsy|4 years ago|reply
Even at work we are not allowed to accept electronics from other companies.
I can’t imagine government officials or security people of a country using a full blown laptop provided by the government officials or security people of other countries!
Sounds like a joke!
[+] [-] qeternity|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blitzar|4 years ago|reply
Goodie bags with phones and cameras etc are popular at celebrity events. Perhaps this is how the celebrity nudes get leaked?
Get free phone at party > go home and film a sex tape > featured on internet.
[+] [-] atlasunshrugged|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aosaigh|4 years ago|reply
https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/47/
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep-47-project-raven/id...
[+] [-] tmearnest|4 years ago|reply
This podcast series is one of my favorites. It some how manages to find a balance between being technical and accessible to the average person. Jack Resider is a great story teller. The level of care and detail they put into their research is incredible and they share the primary sources if you want to go even deeper.
If you like podcasts, give this a listen. Physical pentest episodes are my favorite.
[+] [-] rishabhd|4 years ago|reply
https://www.evilsocket.net/2016/07/27/How-The-United-Arab-Em...
[+] [-] aphroz|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] raducu|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wil421|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joshsyn|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pageandrew|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] macevilc|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] StrLght|4 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28541117
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28530963
[+] [-] pluc|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] truthwhisperer|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]