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bweitzman | 4 years ago

The meat industry is also cost effective due to massive government subsidies, at least in the US. Would these subsidies be available to lab grown meat operations?

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laingc|4 years ago

The New Zealand meat and dairy industries do not receive subsidies after radical market deregulation during the Labour government of '84.

We have a highly efficient and profitable sector, mainly for the reason that we compete in fairly extreme conditions against subsidised international players.

Note that this process incurred significant pain for many individuals while the industry reoriented and consolidated, and I am not inviting any argument around environmental impacts (which I would contend are bad, but also clearly less bad than other countries).

So yes, "natural" meat can be competitive and efficient without government subsidies.

lcpriest|4 years ago

All that is true, but - we also don’t force farmers to internalize the externalities created by their industry.

Southland farmers themselves are saying that if they had to comply with proposed water and soil quality regulations that they wouldn’t be able to exist due to the increased costs involved.

The backlash even from the introduction of a heavy vehicles tax are representative of how much these farmers think they rely on the unpriced benefits they are getting.

hannob|4 years ago

We'd probably have to define what "not receive subsidies" means.

I'm pretty sure they don't pay for the damages caused by the methane and N2O emissions caused by the meat production. "We don't have to care about our externalities" is ultimately a form of subsidy.

wumpus|4 years ago

A bit of googling says that New Zealand cows eat a lot of grain in both the beef and dairy industries. Grain is subsidized in many countries.

tablespoon|4 years ago

> The meat industry is also cost effective due to massive government subsidies, at least in the US. Would these subsidies be available to lab grown meat operations?

Why would those subsidies matter when you're comparing a cow to a bioreactor? You can stick the cow in a dirty field and have hundreds of pounds of meat a few years later, as dirt-poor herdsmen with practically no captial have been doing for thousands of years. Its equivalent competitor would be a fussy bioreactor in a clean room that would require millions in capital, as well as high-end expertise and labor. Apparently the "food" is also ridiculously expensive.

MrPatan|4 years ago

Meat was a thing before government subsidies were a thing. Or before governments were a thing. Before most things were a thing, really.

pharmakom|4 years ago

What has exchanged is 1) the massive scale of the human population and 2) wider access to animal protein. Without the subsidies, I expect prices would rise for consumers (most farmers are not making vast profits despite subsidies) and that is not a vote winner.

Scarblac|4 years ago

Sure, a few times per week, at a cost of spending quite some hours hunting, for a much smaller population.

adrianN|4 years ago

My grandmother had to raise the meat she ate herself. That meant that meat was fairly rare, usually only on Sundays you'd get an actual piece of meat on your plate. Today we eat way more meat than in the past because it's so cheap thanks to subsidies.

prox|4 years ago

The scale is vastly different, is it not?

bryanrasmussen|4 years ago

yeah, before capitalism was a thing, before the current human population of the earth was a thing, really.

edge17|4 years ago

Not that I claim to know how to factor the cost in, but meat production has negative externalities that the industry doesn't pay for. Not to mention things like water rights etc. If the farmers actually paid those costs, my guess is the price gap would close a bit.

macinjosh|4 years ago

No it is not. Please provide evidence for this claim.