I stopped using my Microsoft Surface Pro because it had the same issues. It's a clusterfuck of bad design decisions at Microsoft, the most offensive one being that they prioritize the execution of their scheduled spyware upload (telemetry) over honoring the agreement with the user that a sleeping PC will remain asleep unless the user takes action. It'll even install updates at night and then make reboot sounds to wake you up. And the next day, your unsaved open documents are all gone. Plus as described here, many Windows 10 laptops will either burn themselves, or the battery will be empty whenever you need em.
I have an XPS 9500 and have found this infuriating.
I think there's two separate things going on:
As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the laptop warm, even in a bag.
The seems to be a second problem, specific to Windows, that when in S1 sleep sometimes the power consumption is high (of order 10W), and this causes the laptop to get very hot if not well ventilated. I've never been able to figure out if this Windows actually doing something useful in "modern standby" like Windows Update, or whether it's a bug. Edit: And I should add, it's crazy that there's not a way to disable this if it is doing something "useful".
Either way, under Linux the latter doesn't happen, and the laptop sleeps very cool ... just with the annoying "lose 5% of your battery overnight" problem from sleeping in S1.
There is something OS specific: Windows has some setting to wake up when a WLAN connection is available. I had this issue once, that I hibernated it, put it in a bag and went home. On the way it must have picked up some WLAN somewhere and have turned on, while in my bag, while the lid is closed, while hibernated ... And I believe this was the standard setting. I mean, who in their right mind wants their laptop to turn on, when the lid is even closed only, because they are in range of some WLAN? What a silly setting. This has probably fried many machines and also probably their owners still do not know, that Windows was the culprit, not their hardware. Fortunately my way home was not long at that time, so the overheating was avoided in time multiple times, until I figured out what was going on. Well, now I do not use Windows any longer, except rarely, so no such issues.
I have an XPS 9500 under Linux (this is a >$4000 machine), no amount of fiddling with BIOS settings (which are few) or systemd/GNOME settings will make it work reliably:
- short suspend time (it can't really stay overnight when suspended with a full battery)
- sometimes it wakes up and overheats in the bag
- very short battery duration when unplugged
Apparently I'm not alone, and even under Windows it's a generalized problem; and when you look for solution on Dell's forum you find this FAQ, which tend to say XPS are more foldable desktops than real laptops.
My wife had a similar problem with her XPS-15. Randomly during the night the laptop would warm up and cause the fans to spin up. Apparently this is caused by windows waking up. Initially I thought it was windows deciding to do an update, but even disabling that (if it is possible at all), the laptop would wakeup. Random trailing through the internet pointed to the useless Killer network drivers, or better the management application, to be the cause and uninstalling them was supposed to fix the issue. Anecdotally it seemed to have worked, but when I last checked the drivers seemed to be back.
> just with the annoying "lose 5% of your battery overnight" problem from sleeping in S1.
Just 5% would be manageable -- I probably wouldn't even notice it. It's more on the order or 20-30% for me, so if I happen to not use my laptop over the weekend, I'll come back to a completely dead laptop.
A couple times, I've opened the laptop to have it scream at me to plug it in ASAP.
It's frustrating when you put a completely charged laptop to bed and can't get going without having to hunt for a power cord.
"Modern Standby" is such a crock of shit. As far as anyone knows, it doesn't do anything useful, but it consumes FIFTY PERCENT (50%!) of the battery each night.
Luckily you can turn it off, at least in Linux, and then the machine functions more-or-less normally.
(The above requires the package 'sysfsutils' to be installed on Debian / Debian derived distributions).
On my work supplied xps-13, bluetooth does not survive the laptop being unplugged in "deep" sleep (even for a couple seconds). Fixing bluetooth requires suspend to disk aka "hibernate" or regular reboot to restore. No reloading modules etc. helps. Other than that annoying bug, proper sleep works fine on the hardware.
But, I also had to add,
/etc/modprobe.d/i915gpu-fix-xps13-crashes.conf:
To solve the laptop crashing when idle. Originally I disabled c-states on the gpu to fix the crashing, but some other kind soul on the Internet shared the above which solves the crashing, but doesn't kill battery life like my fix.
Serious question — why do people so frequently sleep rather than shut down? Is it to save time on booting up? Is it because you want other processes running? All of the pain points below are reasons why I just always shut down. I think I developed the habit at a time when sleep just never worked on my linux machine though, but that was years ago now. I’m speechless reading below that Windows wakes just to install updates… and then remains awake!
I've seen issues with Modern Standby on my fleet of Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga L13 and L13 Gen 2. Usually everything is fine, but sometimes they get super hot in standby as well. It's like something is keeping the CPU awake but the rest of the hardware is asleep (including the fans). My older units (ThinkPad Yoga 260, ThinkPad Yoga 370, ThinkPad L380 Yoga, ThinkPad L390 Yoga) never had any problem like this because they don't support Modern Standby.
It's very annoying that MS doesn't allow us any way to disable Modern Standby. OEMs still haven't figured out how to make old school sleep perfectly reliable. Springing a new standby model on them was doomed to be just troublesome.
It's something about modern standby. I have a laptop with a 10th Gen i7. I put it in my bag once and when I pulled it out after my trip, the fans were running at full blast and the laptop was extremely hot. I'm also fairly sure it damaged the fan because it's never been able to run at higher speeds ever since.
I'm also not sure if it's a bug or something else. I do feel like there's something problematic about modern standby. I didn't have this issue under Linux, which actually does standby properly.
You can force modern standby to disconnect from networks (connected standby vs. disconnected standby). This helps with stopping the system from waking up randomly.
Something seems a bit off with your numbers. If you're losing 5% of your battery "overnight" (at least 8 hours I assume), and you have the larger 86Wh battery, that implies a discharge rate of only 537mW.
900mw - nearly a whole watt - seems very high! Easily enough to cause noticeable warming - a running modern laptop at idle only uses 3-6 watts.
>I've never been able to figure out if this Windows actually doing something useful in "modern standby" like Windows Update, or whether it's a bug.
I asked a very similar question a few months ago. The sleep/standby modes were behaving as other people have reported, however, the fact that the battery was draining rapidly in shutdown mode, on a new Dell with a 3 month-old battery with very few cycles, was a cause for concern. Nevertheless, I tried using the CsEnabled trick, which didn't work. Eventually, after troubleshooting BIOS features, applying the latest updates and using powercfg options -- batteryreport, sleepstudy etc.
I found a solution, which is a compromise at best. The battery drain was 20% within a few hours. But now with S3 sleep state -- it drains around 8-10% in full shutdown mode over a period of 8-10 hours. A similar drain in Standby is over a period of 15-18 hours.
I was going to post the exact same thing. I have the 9500; this definitely infuriated me and is mostly solved by installing Linux.
There are still some things that can annoyingly wake it (usually a bluetooth device trying to pair to it); but it's an odd exception versus the 50% chance every time I went to transport my laptop with Windows.
> On occasion, the system stays in the active mode (with the screen off) for a longer interval of time. These longer active intervals occur for a variety of reasons, for example, processing incoming email or downloading critical Windows updates. Windows components that are allowed to leave the SoC in the active power state are called activators because they are registered with the power manager as capable of blocking the transition back to the idle power mode. The durations of these activities vary widely but are controlled to extend battery life. The durations of the activities can be viewed with the built-in SleepStudy software tool or through Event Tracing for Windows (ETW)-based instrumentation.
So let me guess: "modern" here is indicates a shitty new thing that doesn't work as well as the old thing.
Funny how the software industry has managed to turn the connotation of "modern" for me from "neutral/slightly positive" to "definite negative" in around a decade.
The issue is that Windows doesn't go into S3 sleep when you close the lid; it goes into a weird not-really-asleep state for... some reason that I don't agree with[0]. I guess that state is "hot" enough that you could damage the laptop by putting it in a bag while in that state.
Fortunately I've been running Linux on my XPS 13, which I have put into a bag hundreds of times (maybe even over a thousand) while suspended. Linux's suspend does actually use the "cold" S3 suspend state, so this is safe.
[0] It's called "Modern Standby" (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/dev...), which... honestly sounds really stupid to me. "Modern Standby" presumably drains the battery orders of magnitude faster than a normal S3 standby. I can't imagine ever wanting this behavior. I'm entirely fine with my laptop taking ~10 seconds to wake up and reconnect to whatever network I'm near.
I own XPS 13 9380 with Windows 10. Same mess with the sleep. I have to carry the laptop in the bag when commuting. You never know what it is doing when lid is closed. There is no lights on the laptop to indicate its state so I just usually put it to my ear and listen until the fan goes off after closing the lid. Then it is semi safe to put it into the bag. Feels like stone age.
Things are just getting worse with Windows and those standard PCs. I never understood why they moved to that S1 idle when S3 was fulfilling basic needs. This family Intel+Windows starts to irritate me. I am seriously considering either fully moving to Linux or to Apple Silicon and Mac OS.
Writing this from my 2019 XPS 15 7590 i9 with (extended) 64 GB RAM. The OLED display quality is still the best any laptop can offer, but that's where it ends. Had countless issues with sleep, reboots after being "killed in sleep" for going over Windows sleep "battery drain limit" (can be increased in registry but hey), wifi/bt issues after wake-up, short battery endurance, fan noise (mitigated by undervolting w/ ThrottleStop). (In case I may sound too dramatic, check their forums: https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/bd-p/XPS)
Then there's the classic Windows Laptop "goodness" like bad keyboards, bad trackpad (too much scrolling, jagged scrolling, bad trackpad surface), necessity to emulate Linux/Git/Wsl/Cygwin for any real dev work, having elaborate install.txt procedures for setting up a new laptop.
I wanted to have a "beefy" machine but since I can now do my play things on Google Colab (and my work on company's Macbook), I just ordered the last year's M1 Macbook Air and I'm done with this Dante's Inferno of Windows Laptop ecosystem. Windows 11 just reinforced my disbelief that Microsoft can produce usable operating system before our civilization reaches Singularity.
I absolutely agree that microsoft could and should make this work better. But the pragmatic workaround is the setting to force hibernation when you close the lid. You can resume from SSD in 10 seconds. No middle of the night wakeups. Much improved battery life.
Recently bought a 7390 latitude (2-3 years old). amazing machine for basic remote desktop and basic office work etc. Battery lasts 10+ hrs on light work.
Had the sleep states turned on and would randomly die at 60% battery while sleeping. Found out its a long standing bug in dells. Sometimes it just restarts the machine so if its in a bag it will just keep running.
Turned of sleep states in firmware and instead now it goes to hibernate on sleep. No random behavior or shutdown.
Its mind boggling this shit used to work totally fine on older laptops, no idea what changed.
Same with Linux honestly. I suspended a Linux laptop, shoved it in the bag, got on the train, little did I know that it didn't actually go into suspend.
Like WTF, if the lid is closed, the hardware should force it to suspend, not get stuck in some software. If the software doesn't respond in time then force the damn thing off.
It heated up like mad, even too hot to touch. Was worried about the possibility of a Lithium battery explosion. If that happened who do you sue, Canonical or the laptop manufacturer?
I got a new laptop earlier this year and I was eyeing this exact one. I was going to wipe out windows and put linux on it(as is tradition with me) but I ended up settling for an Asus once again. It seems like you can get a lot more bang for the buck with Asus in Europe. Can't say it has been an entirely smooth ride for one or two reasons(running a patched kernel driver for the screen backlight) but after reading your comment, I am glad I made that call.
I had a dell laptop around 2012 that had this same problem, on Windows 7. I also remember holding it up to my ear to confirm it shut down haha. And it did wake itself up and overheat in my bag a couple times. I've just avoided Dell ever since when I can. My current work laptop is some sort of Dell XPS, but at least I didn't pay for it.
Im currently in the process of getting a framework laptop setup using arch+wayland+sway and I'm not convinced it's any better on this side. Something as simple as a screensaver requires xwayland which is frustrating.
FWIW my (Intel) MacBook does the same. Sometimes it just doesn't go to sleep when I close the lid and it's not clear why, so I have to listen for the fans. So dumb.
> With regards to transporting your laptop, you must first turn the laptop OFF
This has been a problem for already quite long. I remember my very old laptop overheating if being put in the backpack in Standby mode.
Nowadays I in fact don't just turn laptops Off the default way. I go and disable the "fast start up" (Control Panel - Power Options - Choose what the power buttons do) to make sure the computer gets turnt of for real rather than using yet another flavour of hibernation. And it still starts very fast (a couple of seconds longer perhaps) so I see no reason for these "fast start up" and "modern stand-by" modes to even exist now as we have fast SSDs and everything.
Besides starting up fast, another important value standby modes add is freeing you from having to open, position and initialize (open the documents/locations in them) all your apps manually every time. But this seems trivial to be reached by adding functions to just save the list of opened apps, their windows positions and the actual documents which were opened in them. This will require some coordinated effort from both the OS and the apps developers though.
This is one of the main reasons I just returned my XPS 13 9310 and got a Framework instead. The sleep/standby/hibernate stuff is just bad. I don’t know if it is a Dell problem or a Windows problem or what, but it’s terrible.
I’m primarily a Mac user but I haven’t had the same issue with other Windows laptops and the Dell has standby issues in Linux too so it’s just bad. And loud. And hot.
OK, so, overheating the laptop stresses it and will eventually damage it. Got it. Easy to understand.
Question. What is it about "being in a bag" that destroys the thermal handling? I've had my laptop in my lap spontaneously power off when it gets too hot. (Which itself makes me a bit crabby about why it didn't successfully throttle down until it could at least keep running, but that's a separate gripe.) Why doesn't the laptop in the bag also eventually turn itself off?
Laptops are equipped with thermal sensors to prevent themselves from destroying themselves already. Why aren't they working here? Why don't the sensors cut things off earlier? Why isn't this a warranty issue? Isn't my hardware's thermal shutoff mechanism defective if it lets this happen?
I had a Dell XPS 9310 until about 3 months ago when suddenly one of the fans died on me for no obvious reasons while I was in quarantine. Given that the fans are now soldered onto the mainboard, Dell was offering me to repair this for almost the same amount I paid for the whole laptop 2 years earlier. Needless to say that this was the last time I will buy a Dell.
Since I am located in Asia, I also went to one of the unauthorized repair shops to see if they could offer a cheaper way to get this done. When I walked in, I saw two customers in front of me with Dells. When it was my turn, I also asked which laptop brands are having the most and least issues. Not surprisingly, Lenovo and Dell rank very high. The Taiwanese (Asus, Acer) as well as Razer and hp were considered of higher quality.
I will never buy a Dell XPS laptop again. The exterior build quality seems very good, but the internals are such a mess.
I cannot count how many times I have been biking home from work and heard in my headphones "Two devices connected", realizing that my Dell XPS had woken up and would - once again - be red hot when I arrived home and pulled it out of my bag.
Many laptop makers started to intentionally disable S3 for the "enhanced" S2. This was/is true of Lenovo as well: for roughly 6 months S3 was disabled completely on the then-new 3rd generation Yoga X1 laptops and Carbon counterparts. It was re-enabled thanks to linux user's uproar under the "legacy sleep mode" umbrella.
Why would you go as far as disabling it, is beyond me. S3 is the sleep mode I expect on a laptop. S2 sounds useful for tablet/phone behavior.
Hibernation doesn't of course suffer from this issue, and I never experienced this on any laptop with S3 sleep.
Of course, if you shut down your laptop and put it immediately in a bag, temperature will raise temporarily even if the system is off due to the inability to dissipate heat. You should be aware of this, and avoid immediately bagging the laptop just after rebuilding the kernel ;)
> Under no circumstances should you leave a laptop powered on and in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag, backpack, or in an overhead bin. The PC will overheat as a result of that action. Any resulting damage will not be covered by the Dell warranty.
My 2017 MBP that was fully spec’d out is both the most expensive and worst laptop I’ve ever owned.
-Rarely ever goes to sleep
-It’s the same model Facebook returned a few thousand of because it randomly voltage surges the USB-C ports and fries stuff plugged into it. Apple refuses to acknowledge this, even though a bad voltage surge blew out the left speaker.
-Keyboards been replaced four times
-NVRAM needs to be reset weekly
-Charging it is super fun. If it still has a charge, you get to randomly pick a USB-C port to plug the charger in. If it’s not that one, power cycle the charger for 30 seconds and try a new port
-Given it never goes to sleep and has no charging indicator, when it’s dead (most of the time I open it) you get to play the charging port roulette, except you have to keep it plugged in a few minutes to see if it gets a charge, before power cycling the charging brick.
-A small half circle of glass popped out of the bottom of the display, where it meets the hinge when it was running an intense CPU load
Have we really evolved to the state that laptop portability is an extra feature and not part of the design criteria for the modern laptop? That the sleep capability of laptops, present in various forms since the 90s, should no longer be used even though it's the default when the lid is closed?
I've been a fan of Dell for many years, against so much evidence of what a joke they've become, but this issue may finally tip me over the edge.
Any name brand PCs you trust to buy for family members who want a name brand and the perceived value that provides? (Besides Apple, I guess).
Oh, come on, sleep and hibernation are the "shut down" of a laptop nowadays, you close the lid and shove it into the bag. Its just as absurd as saying you cant put the phone in your pocket unless you fully turn it off.
Microsoft has a serious issue with thinking it's ok to wake up from sleep mode. I added a script to the task scheduler to resleep if woken up by anything other than the power button[1]. In retrospect, the wake ups were either to perform updates or some kind of bug related to transitioning to hibernation which ends up with the pc idling on[2]. Both of which would result in the classic hot bag / dead battery situation.
If the laptop cannot be carried with the sleep/hibernate/standby, then it does not have a functioning sleep/hibernate/standby and is not fit for use as a laptop, so it was sold as defective and should be replaced with a working laptop at the manufacturer's expense.
Not really in practice though - to rephrase, you can only put it in a bag if it's shut down - how many people do that frequently other than to reboot for some reason? How many of those do it every time they put it in a bag? As if on your commute to work for example you're going to power on when you get on the train, shut down again when you get off, power on again when you get into the office, off again when you leave, ... (and if the job involves lots of client meetings, or presentations in another building..!)
Note, this isn't Dell specific - the loss of s3 sleep is coming from Intel and Microsoft. The idea is that S0ix is supposed to "replace" s3, but (at least on Linux) it's a horrible mess.
I have a System76/Clevo - ostensibly one of the better choices for running Linux - and S0ix at best drains like ~5% of my battery overnight, and at worst it doesn't work at all.
Some will quip that I shouldn't expect sleep to work on Linux anyway, but this defies my experience with S3 on Linux (which has "just worked" for the last decade for me) so this is a substantial downgrade.
Do yourself a favor and avoid Tiger Lake and newer if you care about reliable sleep.
I've had this happen to me once with an XPS13-9360.
I use Linux on my laptops exclusively, and it was supposed to enter S3 just fine. But after I closed the lid, something went wrong, and instead of suspending it actually started hogging 100% of CPU. I was unaware of it, and put it into my backpack. Shortly after, I had noticed that my back felt unusually warm. When I got it out, it was infuriatingly hot, almost scalding. I kept pressing down the power button until it turned off, and held it in the open air until both it and the inside of my backpack cooled off enough. Thankfully, it was a cold winter evening, so it didn't take very long.
It's been 3 years now, the laptop works to this day nicely, even after suffering a bent edge on the screen assembly after falling down.
[+] [-] fxtentacle|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JonyEpsilon|4 years ago|reply
I think there's two separate things going on:
As others have noted, S3 sleep isn't supported, only S1 "sleep to idle" sleep. But I don't think this is the direct cause of the overheating. In S1 sleep, the laptop can average something like 900mW of power usage, which is enough to annoyingly knock a few percent off your battery overnight, but not enough to make the laptop warm, even in a bag.
The seems to be a second problem, specific to Windows, that when in S1 sleep sometimes the power consumption is high (of order 10W), and this causes the laptop to get very hot if not well ventilated. I've never been able to figure out if this Windows actually doing something useful in "modern standby" like Windows Update, or whether it's a bug. Edit: And I should add, it's crazy that there's not a way to disable this if it is doing something "useful".
Either way, under Linux the latter doesn't happen, and the laptop sleeps very cool ... just with the annoying "lose 5% of your battery overnight" problem from sleeping in S1.
[+] [-] zelphirkalt|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bestouff|4 years ago|reply
- short suspend time (it can't really stay overnight when suspended with a full battery)
- sometimes it wakes up and overheats in the bag
- very short battery duration when unplugged
Apparently I'm not alone, and even under Windows it's a generalized problem; and when you look for solution on Dell's forum you find this FAQ, which tend to say XPS are more foldable desktops than real laptops.
[+] [-] gpderetta|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] julianlam|4 years ago|reply
Just 5% would be manageable -- I probably wouldn't even notice it. It's more on the order or 20-30% for me, so if I happen to not use my laptop over the weekend, I'll come back to a completely dead laptop.
A couple times, I've opened the laptop to have it scream at me to plug it in ASAP.
It's frustrating when you put a completely charged laptop to bed and can't get going without having to hunt for a power cord.
[+] [-] lmilcin|4 years ago|reply
For that reason my primary work machine can currently only be Linux. I have Windows, but this one is only for stuff that is incompatible with Linux.
I actually have Linux PC and a separate Linux laptop (Thinkpad T440s).
That laptop runs super cool once I debugged all the sources of power usage. Which is quite easy on Linux but neigh impossible on Windows.
[+] [-] quasarj|4 years ago|reply
Luckily you can turn it off, at least in Linux, and then the machine functions more-or-less normally.
[+] [-] sillystuff|4 years ago|reply
You want it to return [deep] s2idle
Adding something like, /etc/sysfs.d/set-sleep-to-s2ram.conf:
(The above requires the package 'sysfsutils' to be installed on Debian / Debian derived distributions).On my work supplied xps-13, bluetooth does not survive the laptop being unplugged in "deep" sleep (even for a couple seconds). Fixing bluetooth requires suspend to disk aka "hibernate" or regular reboot to restore. No reloading modules etc. helps. Other than that annoying bug, proper sleep works fine on the hardware.
But, I also had to add, /etc/modprobe.d/i915gpu-fix-xps13-crashes.conf:
To solve the laptop crashing when idle. Originally I disabled c-states on the gpu to fix the crashing, but some other kind soul on the Internet shared the above which solves the crashing, but doesn't kill battery life like my fix.[+] [-] worldmerge|4 years ago|reply
If I do I'll probably buy a framework laptop.
[+] [-] jorgesborges|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] discreditable|4 years ago|reply
It's very annoying that MS doesn't allow us any way to disable Modern Standby. OEMs still haven't figured out how to make old school sleep perfectly reliable. Springing a new standby model on them was doomed to be just troublesome.
[+] [-] VortexDream|4 years ago|reply
I'm also not sure if it's a bug or something else. I do feel like there's something problematic about modern standby. I didn't have this issue under Linux, which actually does standby properly.
[+] [-] qyv|4 years ago|reply
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/146593-enable-disable-ne...
[+] [-] dTal|4 years ago|reply
900mw - nearly a whole watt - seems very high! Easily enough to cause noticeable warming - a running modern laptop at idle only uses 3-6 watts.
[+] [-] 45ure|4 years ago|reply
I asked a very similar question a few months ago. The sleep/standby modes were behaving as other people have reported, however, the fact that the battery was draining rapidly in shutdown mode, on a new Dell with a 3 month-old battery with very few cycles, was a cause for concern. Nevertheless, I tried using the CsEnabled trick, which didn't work. Eventually, after troubleshooting BIOS features, applying the latest updates and using powercfg options -- batteryreport, sleepstudy etc.
I found a solution, which is a compromise at best. The battery drain was 20% within a few hours. But now with S3 sleep state -- it drains around 8-10% in full shutdown mode over a period of 8-10 hours. A similar drain in Standby is over a period of 15-18 hours.
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10...
https://old.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/h0r56s/getting_back_s...
[+] [-] deaddodo|4 years ago|reply
There are still some things that can annoyingly wake it (usually a bluetooth device trying to pair to it); but it's an odd exception versus the 50% chance every time I went to transport my laptop with Windows.
[+] [-] comeonseriously|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tablespoon|4 years ago|reply
So let me guess: "modern" here is indicates a shitty new thing that doesn't work as well as the old thing.
...after further reading, yep:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/dev...
> On occasion, the system stays in the active mode (with the screen off) for a longer interval of time. These longer active intervals occur for a variety of reasons, for example, processing incoming email or downloading critical Windows updates. Windows components that are allowed to leave the SoC in the active power state are called activators because they are registered with the power manager as capable of blocking the transition back to the idle power mode. The durations of these activities vary widely but are controlled to extend battery life. The durations of the activities can be viewed with the built-in SleepStudy software tool or through Event Tracing for Windows (ETW)-based instrumentation.
[+] [-] chippiewill|4 years ago|reply
Intel have completely removed S3 sleep from the latest Tigerlake chips so even if you run Linux you end up with the same problem.
[+] [-] userbinator|4 years ago|reply
Funny how the software industry has managed to turn the connotation of "modern" for me from "neutral/slightly positive" to "definite negative" in around a decade.
[+] [-] boznz|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lvs|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kelnos|4 years ago|reply
Fortunately I've been running Linux on my XPS 13, which I have put into a bag hundreds of times (maybe even over a thousand) while suspended. Linux's suspend does actually use the "cold" S3 suspend state, so this is safe.
[0] It's called "Modern Standby" (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/dev...), which... honestly sounds really stupid to me. "Modern Standby" presumably drains the battery orders of magnitude faster than a normal S3 standby. I can't imagine ever wanting this behavior. I'm entirely fine with my laptop taking ~10 seconds to wake up and reconnect to whatever network I'm near.
[+] [-] algismo|4 years ago|reply
Things are just getting worse with Windows and those standard PCs. I never understood why they moved to that S1 idle when S3 was fulfilling basic needs. This family Intel+Windows starts to irritate me. I am seriously considering either fully moving to Linux or to Apple Silicon and Mac OS.
[+] [-] ypcx|4 years ago|reply
Then there's the classic Windows Laptop "goodness" like bad keyboards, bad trackpad (too much scrolling, jagged scrolling, bad trackpad surface), necessity to emulate Linux/Git/Wsl/Cygwin for any real dev work, having elaborate install.txt procedures for setting up a new laptop.
I wanted to have a "beefy" machine but since I can now do my play things on Google Colab (and my work on company's Macbook), I just ordered the last year's M1 Macbook Air and I'm done with this Dante's Inferno of Windows Laptop ecosystem. Windows 11 just reinforced my disbelief that Microsoft can produce usable operating system before our civilization reaches Singularity.
[+] [-] superjan|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mnadkvlb|4 years ago|reply
Had the sleep states turned on and would randomly die at 60% battery while sleeping. Found out its a long standing bug in dells. Sometimes it just restarts the machine so if its in a bag it will just keep running.
Turned of sleep states in firmware and instead now it goes to hibernate on sleep. No random behavior or shutdown.
Its mind boggling this shit used to work totally fine on older laptops, no idea what changed.
[+] [-] dheera|4 years ago|reply
Like WTF, if the lid is closed, the hardware should force it to suspend, not get stuck in some software. If the software doesn't respond in time then force the damn thing off.
It heated up like mad, even too hot to touch. Was worried about the possibility of a Lithium battery explosion. If that happened who do you sue, Canonical or the laptop manufacturer?
[+] [-] spijdar|4 years ago|reply
I believe ARM Macs use the same type of sleep, only with more polished firmware and better vertical integration with the OS.
[+] [-] axegon_|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alexeiz|4 years ago|reply
I knew I wasn't the only one who does it!
[+] [-] squeaky-clean|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qudat|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] afavour|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qwerty456127|4 years ago|reply
This has been a problem for already quite long. I remember my very old laptop overheating if being put in the backpack in Standby mode.
Nowadays I in fact don't just turn laptops Off the default way. I go and disable the "fast start up" (Control Panel - Power Options - Choose what the power buttons do) to make sure the computer gets turnt of for real rather than using yet another flavour of hibernation. And it still starts very fast (a couple of seconds longer perhaps) so I see no reason for these "fast start up" and "modern stand-by" modes to even exist now as we have fast SSDs and everything.
Besides starting up fast, another important value standby modes add is freeing you from having to open, position and initialize (open the documents/locations in them) all your apps manually every time. But this seems trivial to be reached by adding functions to just save the list of opened apps, their windows positions and the actual documents which were opened in them. This will require some coordinated effort from both the OS and the apps developers though.
[+] [-] filmgirlcw|4 years ago|reply
I’m primarily a Mac user but I haven’t had the same issue with other Windows laptops and the Dell has standby issues in Linux too so it’s just bad. And loud. And hot.
[+] [-] jerf|4 years ago|reply
Question. What is it about "being in a bag" that destroys the thermal handling? I've had my laptop in my lap spontaneously power off when it gets too hot. (Which itself makes me a bit crabby about why it didn't successfully throttle down until it could at least keep running, but that's a separate gripe.) Why doesn't the laptop in the bag also eventually turn itself off?
Laptops are equipped with thermal sensors to prevent themselves from destroying themselves already. Why aren't they working here? Why don't the sensors cut things off earlier? Why isn't this a warranty issue? Isn't my hardware's thermal shutoff mechanism defective if it lets this happen?
[+] [-] neuromancer2600|4 years ago|reply
Since I am located in Asia, I also went to one of the unauthorized repair shops to see if they could offer a cheaper way to get this done. When I walked in, I saw two customers in front of me with Dells. When it was my turn, I also asked which laptop brands are having the most and least issues. Not surprisingly, Lenovo and Dell rank very high. The Taiwanese (Asus, Acer) as well as Razer and hp were considered of higher quality.
[+] [-] gotstad|4 years ago|reply
I cannot count how many times I have been biking home from work and heard in my headphones "Two devices connected", realizing that my Dell XPS had woken up and would - once again - be red hot when I arrived home and pulled it out of my bag.
[+] [-] bsdubernerd|4 years ago|reply
Many laptop makers started to intentionally disable S3 for the "enhanced" S2. This was/is true of Lenovo as well: for roughly 6 months S3 was disabled completely on the then-new 3rd generation Yoga X1 laptops and Carbon counterparts. It was re-enabled thanks to linux user's uproar under the "legacy sleep mode" umbrella.
Why would you go as far as disabling it, is beyond me. S3 is the sleep mode I expect on a laptop. S2 sounds useful for tablet/phone behavior.
Hibernation doesn't of course suffer from this issue, and I never experienced this on any laptop with S3 sleep.
Of course, if you shut down your laptop and put it immediately in a bag, temperature will raise temporarily even if the system is off due to the inability to dissipate heat. You should be aware of this, and avoid immediately bagging the laptop just after rebuilding the kernel ;)
[+] [-] RGamma|4 years ago|reply
> Under no circumstances should you leave a laptop powered on and in any sleep/hibernate/standby mode when placed in a bag, backpack, or in an overhead bin. The PC will overheat as a result of that action. Any resulting damage will not be covered by the Dell warranty.
Now how a hibernated laptop could overheat..
[+] [-] cududa|4 years ago|reply
-Rarely ever goes to sleep
-It’s the same model Facebook returned a few thousand of because it randomly voltage surges the USB-C ports and fries stuff plugged into it. Apple refuses to acknowledge this, even though a bad voltage surge blew out the left speaker.
-Keyboards been replaced four times
-NVRAM needs to be reset weekly
-Charging it is super fun. If it still has a charge, you get to randomly pick a USB-C port to plug the charger in. If it’s not that one, power cycle the charger for 30 seconds and try a new port
-Given it never goes to sleep and has no charging indicator, when it’s dead (most of the time I open it) you get to play the charging port roulette, except you have to keep it plugged in a few minutes to see if it gets a charge, before power cycling the charging brick.
-A small half circle of glass popped out of the bottom of the display, where it meets the hinge when it was running an intense CPU load
[+] [-] mwexler|4 years ago|reply
I've been a fan of Dell for many years, against so much evidence of what a joke they've become, but this issue may finally tip me over the edge.
Any name brand PCs you trust to buy for family members who want a name brand and the perceived value that provides? (Besides Apple, I guess).
[+] [-] guax|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] KarlTheCool|4 years ago|reply
[1] https://github.com/KarlTheCool/NeverWake
[2] https://old.reddit.com/r/gpdwin/comments/iqmdeo/windows_kept...
[+] [-] PeterisP|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] OJFord|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JeremyNT|4 years ago|reply
I have a System76/Clevo - ostensibly one of the better choices for running Linux - and S0ix at best drains like ~5% of my battery overnight, and at worst it doesn't work at all.
Some will quip that I shouldn't expect sleep to work on Linux anyway, but this defies my experience with S3 on Linux (which has "just worked" for the last decade for me) so this is a substantial downgrade.
Do yourself a favor and avoid Tiger Lake and newer if you care about reliable sleep.
[+] [-] WesolyKubeczek|4 years ago|reply
I use Linux on my laptops exclusively, and it was supposed to enter S3 just fine. But after I closed the lid, something went wrong, and instead of suspending it actually started hogging 100% of CPU. I was unaware of it, and put it into my backpack. Shortly after, I had noticed that my back felt unusually warm. When I got it out, it was infuriatingly hot, almost scalding. I kept pressing down the power button until it turned off, and held it in the open air until both it and the inside of my backpack cooled off enough. Thankfully, it was a cold winter evening, so it didn't take very long.
It's been 3 years now, the laptop works to this day nicely, even after suffering a bent edge on the screen assembly after falling down.