Edit: Yes I know signal is free and funded by donations. I've donated multiple times. I still don't think 'free' is a a valid reason for not informing people sooner. It's just unprofessional. This response from MrDresden is on point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28667509
It's really annoying that they didn't even acknowledge the problem officially. Till about 15 minutes ago, their status page said everything was fine. Their Twitter account still doesn't mention any technical problems. But the service has been having issues for at least 3 hours. [1]
Most people I know that started using Signal a few months ago are now back to using Whatsapp. Privacy is a nice feature to advertise, but when both your UX and your reliability suck, it's not a good combo.
EDIT: A tweet has emerged 3 hours after the outage started.
Counterpoint - I'm completely happy with signal. The useability, contrary to some comments here, is wonderful. In particular I love the desktop app, it was easy to get family to use and does everything I need smoothly and with good privacy.
I haven't had reliability problems, but I do find it annoying that if I don't update my app frequently enough, they just cut communications entirely. That is, I don't get notifications that I've received new messages anymore. I usually find out about this when someone emails me to say they've sent me a message on Signal, but I've not responded.
Instead of silently failing, I wish they would pop up a notification that says "Your version of Signal is now out-of-date, and you will not receive new messages until you update."
If people are going back to Whatsapp after that, then let them. Signal has been working really well for me for years now. I don't like it from a privacy standpoint, I'd much rather see wide adoption of Briar or Matrix. But to say Signal isn't working well for a free app is crazy.
Who's paying for all their infrastructure anyways? What's the plan Moxie?
They also did not acknowledge the previous big outage, that happen at the beginning of the year. Their blog does not mention what steps are being taken to mitigate scalability issues. While the protocol and their effort to make everything secure is amazing, lack of transparency into reliability is concerning and a barrier to adoption.
However, I don’t think the UX is bad, so far it has been sufficient for me.
The people I got on Signal that dropped it (and not everyone did, it stuck for all my in-laws), did so because everyone was on WA anyway, including the people they used Signal with. But they all confessed that the usability was comparable (except for that pincode, which I turned off for some people that didn't understand it and when I explained, didn't need it).
Not sure I'd say that their reliability "sucks". I've been using it for years and this is only the second major outage I can recall, the other being when an Elon tweet dogpiled millions of users onto the service.
> Most people I know that started using Signal a few months ago are now back to using Whatsapp. Privacy is a nice feature to advertise, but when both your UX and your reliability suck, it's not a good combo.
Fully agree on the UX but not the reliability. WhatsApp used to be famous in Switzerland for its unreliability. On big European football games and Christmas / New Year WhatsApp was regularely down for 3 hours and more.
The UX and reliability sucks? I doubt that. Using Signal for years on a old iPhone SE (1st Gen) and a new Pixel 4a. Signal works perfectly and for many other people.
It is just funny when the local radio reports that WhatsApp has another outage. While Signal had only serious problems when WhatsApp changed it terms last time - too many new users. Sounds like "I had once a bug with it therefore it is bad and I know how to doge the bugs in the other crapy software...so the crapy software is better".
If you're tempted to switch back to WhatsApp because of Signal reliability issues, consider the possibility that you may be the target of a downgrade attack.
how much do you spend on the service that's so crucial to you? What do you expect to get when giving nothing?
Whoever is keeping a Whatsapp Account nowadays shits on the privacy of all their addressbook contacts and can't be helped, obviously. It may not be a friend.
Fwiw I've been using Signal as my primary communications channel along with email for the past few years. There's an outage once a year or so, but I can live with that. It just works--for voice calls, video calls, chat, groups, etc.
The real question here isn't about which system is technologically superior (though HN gravitates to that question), it's which one is technologically superior taking into account network effects. Briar and Session may be great, and I wish everyone used them, but at present at least where I live it'd be very tough going. Getting people to use Signal isn't all that hard, the network is pretty robust in my communities (university city).
I have used Signal for many years as well, I am now trying to move away from it because while the security is nice, it lacks a good backup/restore mechanism. All the critical data I recieved or sent on it is encrypted and even with the same number and pin it can't "merge" or import specific backups! The thick log that broke the camel's back for me was having to keep an android phone specifically for Signal usage because you can't import android backups on iPhones. Somehow they have resources to create a cryptocoin and other features I have no use for but basic reliability needs, at least for me is not met by this app.
I would like to say to each his own but the nature of communication apps makes them useless if others don't also use it. The typical response I get for this is some form of whataboutism. I will just use whatever else I find for now until they figure out a way to monetize it and care about user needs (such as not mandating phone numbers and being able to register the same number on multiple devices so I can use it on iPhone for example without stopping android usage) or some other app like threema will gain popularity like Signal.
Down due to a hosting outage, but back up currently.
This is why I would wanna see user-hosted instances of the Signal server [0] plugging in to the network and supporting traffic.
I think a zero-config server app install of Signal server would work great for decentralizing the messaging platform too, but unfortunately it's not set up to handle that yet.
moxie the creator of it is so against decentralizing signal its insane so thats never going to happen sadly, it really would fix the problem just have a few thousand server people start running and it connects to the network and gets sent messages to send to its destination
I have very limited experience with Signal, but it has an issue I cannot figure out that massively limits the appeal for me. I very rarely get any sort of notification. If I open the app on my OnePlus 7 Pro running Android 10, it'll flood me with missed notifications. But that's about it. (I think it has notified me in the past without opening the app, but I can't remember for sure.) I'm sure it's not designed to work this way, but I haven't worked out how to fix the broken notification system on my phone. Some online friends use it for coordinating plans, so I'm "forced" to use it (and try to remember to "check" it from time to time), but I do wonder how common my issue is. Presumably quite rare!
Does Signal work better on other platforms? (For me, no - I also have it installed on Windows and do not get notifications.)
I had a similar problem that was resolved by changing some obscure Android setting. I think it may have been the restrict background battery usage setting, then another where Signal has to have a persistent tray notification, but it gets hidden from view, so I just enabled all notifications then dialed back from there.
OnePlus is notorious for preventing apps from working as intended in order to increase battery life. Take a look at https://dontkillmyapp.com to see what you need to do to ensure Signal is working as intended.
What's a good alternative to Signal on Android for casual messaging? I don't think Element is a good fit since it's not easy to ask a friend or family member to sign up for Element whereas it's simple to install Signal.
I ditched Signal about a month ago. Transferred my last group chat to iMessage.
Most of my friends don't care about privacy, I tried to love Signal for 2 year, I recommended it to friends, only to give up and make a fool of myself. But after so long, the fact that I regularly don't get notifications of new messages is inexcusable.
So in my inner cirle, Signal has damaged people's willingness to improve privacy. Thanks.
[+] [-] unclekev|4 years ago|reply
A single tweet 3 hours AFTER the outage has started is just not acceptable [1]
[1] https://twitter.com/signalapp/status/1442354759009247232
Edit: Yes I know signal is free and funded by donations. I've donated multiple times. I still don't think 'free' is a a valid reason for not informing people sooner. It's just unprofessional. This response from MrDresden is on point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28667509
[+] [-] LordAtlas|4 years ago|reply
Most people I know that started using Signal a few months ago are now back to using Whatsapp. Privacy is a nice feature to advertise, but when both your UX and your reliability suck, it's not a good combo.
EDIT: A tweet has emerged 3 hours after the outage started.
[1] https://downdetector.com/status/signal/
[+] [-] davros|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gnicholas|4 years ago|reply
Instead of silently failing, I wish they would pop up a notification that says "Your version of Signal is now out-of-date, and you will not receive new messages until you update."
[+] [-] INTPenis|4 years ago|reply
Who's paying for all their infrastructure anyways? What's the plan Moxie?
[+] [-] YeBanKo|4 years ago|reply
However, I don’t think the UX is bad, so far it has been sufficient for me.
[+] [-] teekert|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] colordrops|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] soziawa|4 years ago|reply
Fully agree on the UX but not the reliability. WhatsApp used to be famous in Switzerland for its unreliability. On big European football games and Christmas / New Year WhatsApp was regularely down for 3 hours and more.
[+] [-] MertsA|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] decrypt|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ho_schi|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vintermann|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mro_name|4 years ago|reply
Whoever is keeping a Whatsapp Account nowadays shits on the privacy of all their addressbook contacts and can't be helped, obviously. It may not be a friend.
[+] [-] Traubenfuchs|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MihaiSandor|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nothroughroad|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] NoImmatureAdHom|4 years ago|reply
The real question here isn't about which system is technologically superior (though HN gravitates to that question), it's which one is technologically superior taking into account network effects. Briar and Session may be great, and I wish everyone used them, but at present at least where I live it'd be very tough going. Getting people to use Signal isn't all that hard, the network is pretty robust in my communities (university city).
[+] [-] kitkat_new|4 years ago|reply
- federation (while P2P might be interesting for some, it definitely isn't something for everyone - yet, see below)
- scalable from private messaging up to thousands of users ((soon) with Spaces and threading)
- unlimited multi device with synchronization
- prospectively P2P with offline usage (Pinecones)
- open standard enabling competition
[+] [-] noja|4 years ago|reply
* it can't save photos to the camera roll
* notifications are hit and miss
[+] [-] badrabbit|4 years ago|reply
I would like to say to each his own but the nature of communication apps makes them useless if others don't also use it. The typical response I get for this is some form of whataboutism. I will just use whatever else I find for now until they figure out a way to monetize it and care about user needs (such as not mandating phone numbers and being able to register the same number on multiple devices so I can use it on iPhone for example without stopping android usage) or some other app like threema will gain popularity like Signal.
[+] [-] dnautics|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pgn674|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hnzix|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] avnigo|4 years ago|reply
This is why I would wanna see user-hosted instances of the Signal server [0] plugging in to the network and supporting traffic.
I think a zero-config server app install of Signal server would work great for decentralizing the messaging platform too, but unfortunately it's not set up to handle that yet.
[0]: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server
[+] [-] ninchuka|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pmlnr|4 years ago|reply
Those are called XMPP or Matrix ;)
[+] [-] Thorentis|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neogodless|4 years ago|reply
Does Signal work better on other platforms? (For me, no - I also have it installed on Windows and do not get notifications.)
[+] [-] vgeek|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 7v3x3n3sem9vv|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] toastercat|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aembleton|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Otek|4 years ago|reply
Most of my friends don't care about privacy, I tried to love Signal for 2 year, I recommended it to friends, only to give up and make a fool of myself. But after so long, the fact that I regularly don't get notifications of new messages is inexcusable.
So in my inner cirle, Signal has damaged people's willingness to improve privacy. Thanks.
[+] [-] YeBanKo|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lbj|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kerng|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnmato|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] plasma|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yownie|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qwertyuiop_|4 years ago|reply
https://getsession.org/ I doesn’t need phone numbers
[+] [-] beermonster|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] avalonpark|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] google234123|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] atatatat|4 years ago|reply