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The Amazon Kindle Cloud Reader is live

181 points| cek | 14 years ago |read.amazon.com | reply

118 comments

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[+] jrockway|14 years ago|reply
So is this the end of DRM on Kindle books? Because it works fine in Chromium, which I have full access to the source code for. That means I can make it do anything, including dump out the text that I'm looking at.

I dug around a little bit and found that it's storing its data in a sqlite database in ~/.config/chromium/Default/databases/https_read.amazon.com_0/2 (there's an index of what's in what database in ../Databases.db). I did a "select * from fragments", found some things that look like data URLs representing images, pasted them into my browser and yup... those are the pictures from the book I'm reading. So, DRM fail.

As for the text of the book, I see some words from the book surrounded by garbage. So if this is encryption, it's pretty bad. Excerpt:

⟳As➁⨋0⫪⟳I➁⨋0⬀⟳exit,➁⨋0⭂⟳I❪➖⨋0⭍⟳⡿❪➖⨋0⮥⟳m➁⨋0⮻⟳⢞⥞ys➁⨋0Ⰸ⟳⢵refu

"As I exit, I'm careful..."

Next step is to look for the source code that implements this and see what those garbage characters are doing.

[+] arethuza|14 years ago|reply
Doesn't having some encryption, even if it is trivial to break, mean that the DMCA applies if you are in the US turning this activity into a criminal act?
[+] rufo|14 years ago|reply
Kindle (and Nook, and Adobe) DRM has been super-easy to crack for a while now. You can even set up Calibre to do it for you.
[+] mmastrac|14 years ago|reply
This is just a simple LZ compression scheme with a per-book, static dictionary. It's trivial to decompress, although that exercise is left to the reader.
[+] ristretto|14 years ago|reply
To be fair, you can find tons of kindle books for free in torrents and on the internet anyway, amazon doesnt stop you even from copying them to your kindle. I m sure amazon and even the authors are aware of those limitations and are focusing on a better experience readers would be willing to pay for.
[+] nextparadigms|14 years ago|reply
"Optimized for iPad: shop the integrated Kindle Store for Tablets"

I was expecting this for a few months now, especially after Apple wanted to introduce that policy of theirs where they wanted a %30 cut. Amazon is not taking any chances with Apple anymore. Good for them. All content providers should use web-apps.

[+] mfringel|14 years ago|reply
Web apps sacrifice offline operation. I can't say I'd be totally sanguine about that, specifically with content providers.
[+] zds|14 years ago|reply
The innovation in web apps that Apple spurred by their payment restrictions is going to be good for everyone. The Financial Times' excellent iPad app has now been replaced by an equally impressive web app. Amazon's Kindle Cloud Reader is almost as responsive as the native app. I'm almost ready to switch to it. Should be interesting to see how this affects the number of books they sell.
[+] fpgeek|14 years ago|reply
Wow, they support Chrome and Safari, but not Firefox. Time to spoof my user agent and see if it really doesn't work or not...

Update: Even user-agent spoofing didn't make a difference with Firefox.

[+] cageface|14 years ago|reply
Looks like they're using Web SQL for local storage. Mozilla foolishly (IMO) rejected this standard so they'd have to reimplement the storage layer with IndexedDB to get this working on FF.
[+] pieter|14 years ago|reply
Nice. Now, if they'd just drop their surcharge for ordering ebooks in mainland Europe I might actually use it. Paying $3-%5 extra per book just because I live somewhere else doesn't make sense with ebooks.
[+] fpgeek|14 years ago|reply
Don't complain to Amazon about their ebook prices. Since "agency pricing", they're (mostly) not allowed to set them anymore. Beyond agency pricing, some European countries (e.g. France, Germany) have tried to regulate the prices of ebooks themselves. Sadly, Amazon is stuck just as much as you are.
[+] anghyflawn|14 years ago|reply
As far as I understand you have more surcharges to fear from European authorities than from Amazon.

Signed - unhappy person living in Norway, where the government is enforcing VAT (which is 25%) on all digital services bought abroad, including ebooks and Apple Store apps. Which is especially lame given that actual books are exempt from VAT (I love actual books, but why the unequal treatment?)

[+] davidw|14 years ago|reply
I wonder if there's a way to fudge this by registering the Kindle with a US company/address or something like that.

The problem is that to set up a service like that would cost money and... you'd end up having to pay to use it, so you're back at square one.

[+] fpgeek|14 years ago|reply
They're highlighting their new iPad-optimized Kindle Store for Tablets. That is clearly a shot back at Apple for the recent "eBookstore Armageddon". Given how close they were to releasing their web app, I'm a little surprised that they didn't play more hardball with Apple, though.
[+] cageface|14 years ago|reply
This is one more reason why I'm happy I'm not locked into a single-platform store like iBooks.
[+] bdickason|14 years ago|reply
I was expecting a similar experience to this on my desktop as well. Loved the web app but wish the store was also optimized and didn't just dump me onto the main AMZN site ;(
[+] veidr|14 years ago|reply
Wow. For reading, that is incomparably better than the (admittedly horrid) Kindle for Mac native application.

If this gains a search feature, I cannot imagine ever launching the native app again.

[+] cageface|14 years ago|reply
Agreed. This is impressive. There are fewer and fewer reasons to write native apps it seems.

Any ideas what frameworks were used to build this?

[+] jerrya|14 years ago|reply
It's a very nice app. Thank you Amazon.

I hope O'Reilly and Safari Books Online take note. I use Safari but its web app to read the books is so slow as to make the whole experience painful and doesn't provide nearly the value it could.

It also seems to be very Microsoft IE optimized and basically lets you read one and only one book at a time, regardless of whether you have a post 2005 tabbed browser or not.

[+] pw|14 years ago|reply
Yeah, I was sorely disappointed when I tried Safari. Great selection, but the interface is horrible. And they make it very hard to cancel your subscription. I expected better from O'Reilly. (It's actually a joint venture between O'Reilly and Pearson, which explains a lot. Still, it's a blight on O'Reilly's otherwise stellar reputation.)
[+] fpgeek|14 years ago|reply
Wonder why they decided to change the name from "Kindle for Web"?

OP, please fix the spelling in the title. I find it very irritating.

[+] pw|14 years ago|reply
This is wonderful. My one gripe with Kindle books was that I couldn't access them from my Ubuntu workstation. Because of that, I actually purchased a second copy of some titles from the Google eBookstore or resorted to pirating a PDF.

It doesn't look like you can highlight passages, though. And the lack of copy and paste, while understandable, will surely be grating in a desktop environment.

[+] bergie|14 years ago|reply
I've been running Kindle for PC on Wine, but this web app is definitely nicer.
[+] jonburs|14 years ago|reply
The misspelling in the title is quite intentional -- cek is Charlie Kindel, former GM of Windows Phone Developer Experience (see http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2860646).

It should also be said that he's a great guy that I've known for more than a decade. Anyone who's interested in taking part in an early stage Seattle startup should definitely send him a message.

Well, on LinkedIn or Twitter or Google+ I guess -- Charlie, please add contact info to your HN profile!

[Edit] Looks like the title spelling has been corrected...

[+] cek|14 years ago|reply
When I posted this link to twitter I did intentionally mis-spell it (my tweet was "Oh, wow. The Amazon Kindel (er, Kindle) Cloud Reader is live: http://bit.ly/pBoMhS.

But, When I pasted it here to share on HN, I removed the "(er,...)" and MEANT to fix the original. My apologies for not doing that. Glad someone at HN was able to fix it.

@jonburs - My contact info IS in my HN profile, not sure why it's not showing up.

[+] davidw|14 years ago|reply
He probably writes Kindel a lot more than Kindle and has it hard wired into his fingers.
[+] davidw|14 years ago|reply
So... you can't cut and paste from it. Anyone want to dig in and look at how it's implemented? They must be fairly confident that people aren't going to use it to rip books off.
[+] ghshephard|14 years ago|reply
http://www.free-ocr.com/, or, I guess any OCR tool will do a job. But then - people could always have done (and probably did) that with a physical book, so, I'm not sure whether it would be worth it to make it more difficult to do with the digital book.
[+] sien|14 years ago|reply
They are probably fairly confident that isn't worth the hassle for most people.

You could already do the same with the Kindle app on the PC at any rate.

There are also scripts for breaking the encryption on Kindle files already.

[+] ericmoritz|14 years ago|reply
The text on the page is actually text. It's just a matter off time before someone writes a greasemonkey script to enable cut and paste.
[+] _b8r0|14 years ago|reply
It's interesting to see Amazon working around the iPad's artificial limitations in this way. jrockway's comment about the sqlite database is particularly interesting. I'm not convinced that it would be particularly feasible to implement DRM in a cross browser way without causing serious performance problems (although I await to be unpleasantly surprised).
[+] eneveu|14 years ago|reply
I've just bought my first e-books with this week's Pragmatic Programmer 40% sale ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2861479 ). I'm now interested in buying an e-reader. Still hesitating between Kindle, Nook, iPad, or an Android tablet...

This might just tip the scale toward the Kindle DX.

[+] cageface|14 years ago|reply
I consolidated from a Kindle and iPad to just the iPad for travelling but I miss the Kindle. It's smaller and more comfortable to read and I prefer it for everything but books with a lot of equation or diagrams.
[+] jmelloy|14 years ago|reply
I love my Nook, and it supports ePub.
[+] pogos|14 years ago|reply
This is so cool. I can now read kindle books on my ubuntu laptop without setting up kindle for pc + wine ugliness.
[+] cek|14 years ago|reply
There are rumors Amazon is bringing out a color Kindle that is more an iPad like tablet than a book reader, likely based on Android.

Given the (apparently) great HTML5 work that went into building the Cloud Reader, I wonder what we'll see for UI in the color Kindle. Will there be a suite of apps that are all HTML5?

[+] toddmorey|14 years ago|reply
Would anyone like to guess why search has been omitted in the web version? Also, for reference / technical books, it would be nice if the authors could mark certain blocks of content to allow copy and paste. It feels weird to have to retype all the code examples from a digital publication.
[+] kia|14 years ago|reply
WTF??? They don't support two most popular web browsers.

Firefox 5: "Your web browser isn't supported yet. Download Chrome or Safari below."

IE9: "Your web browser isn't supported yet. Download Chrome or Safari below."

[+] JeremyBanks|14 years ago|reply
They're using the Web SQL database to store the books on the client. This has never been supported by Firefox. Alternatives are becoming available, but it's not surprising that they started with the most established client-side database. It's also the only one supported by Safari, and since it seems like tablet support is one of their goals, that's important.
[+] cageface|14 years ago|reply
Complain to Mozilla for being too pig-headed to support Web SQL.
[+] forcer|14 years ago|reply
It shows only books downloaded to the 1st Kindle associated with particular account. Anyone knows how to display books from all Kindles on that account?
[+] ghshephard|14 years ago|reply
Shows books associated with all of my devices. Or, to be more accurate, all of the books I have purchased, in archive or on a device, are present. Including seven (7) unique copies of the Amazon Kindle Guide.
[+] smhinsey|14 years ago|reply
I would love to see this synchronize with the "collections" feature on the DX (not sure if all models have it). Otherwise, this is excellent.