It's sad and ironic to see phrasing like "We’re proud that Windows 11 is the most inclusively designed version of Windows" when you're basically telling all your long-time power-users to fuck off. Then again, "inclusive" has already become a loaded doublespeak word in these times.
We’ve improved the experiences for touch in Windows 11 when you’re using a tablet without a keyboard. You’ll see more space between the icons in the Taskbar
What if I'm NOT using one?
Thank you Microsoft, for taking away even more customisation, dumbing down the OS to new levels, and shoving more adverts in our faces. Now people have even more reasons than before to try Linux or macOS.
A new era for the PC begins today
You're right about that --- an even more locked-down and user-hostile (all in the name of "security", of course) era begins.
As a long-time Win32 developer who started writing utilities for DOS and then moved to Win16 for a short while, the direction that Windows (and the PC platform in general) is going is really sad and horrifying to see.
"diversity" and "inclusivity" have always been the tech industry most favorite buzzwords that never ever meant a damn thing concretely, but you put them there to virtue signal to a certain crowd otherwise someone might accuse you of an imaginary thought crime. Of course it's meaningless by definition.
This is a terrible update which adds very little of value for the end user, it only turns Windows non pro into some sort of SAAS that Microsoft is going to milk forcefully.
It's fascinating to me just how poorly they understand their long term developers. I've been making a living developing on windows since the early 2000s (having been a Unix guy before that) and the inexplicable inability to produce a working GUI solution for .NET core just leaves me flummoxed. Yet Electron.NET works fine across Linux, Windows and OSX.
The sequence of events that means my main development machine is running Debian looked something like this:
1. Docker switches to WSL2, deprecates WSL1
2. My big dev box (running Windows Server 2019) can no longer test containers.
3. My laptop is running WSL2 so I'm spending more and more time in a Debian shell. All the CLI stuff works better there anyway.
4. I switch my big dev box to Debian and hey presto, suddenly Android Studio isn't a giant PITA. Let's try VS code. Oh ok, it's actually pretty cool.
5. I switch all my code base into VS Code.
6. What exactly do I need Windows for? A few games.
I now do most of my dev work on Debian and the transition was made painless by WSL2, Microsoft making Windows a bad choice for developers and the Docker people playing along. If you're already spending a lot of time in WSL2 and you do a mix of Android and .NET Core, you have zero reasons to stay on Windows.
I made the jump to full time linux in 2020, finally tired of all the Windows annoyances and realizing everything I use day to day runs fine on linux. If I hadn’t done it then I would certainly do it now with this ridiculous Windows 11 rollout.
It took a little bit of work but now my linux desktop works exactly how I want now, and Windows and macOS both feel strange to my muscle memory when I have to use them.
I've been using Win 11 - preview, for development and personal stuff - for a few months and I really can't understand why people are getting mad at it.
A few UI elements have changed places, but it mostly feels like Win 10 to me.
It surprises and disappoints me to see them making all of Windows Vista's mistakes again.
Four months public beta wherein they fixed almost none of the major problems. Listened to almost none of the user feedback. Massive inconsistencies and half complete ideas abound.
This isn't the worst Windows I've tried, but it is perhaps the worst RTM. If this was still in public beta I'd call it "serviceable" as a daily driver if you can deal with the quirks.
But RTM-ing this? Shipping new computers with an even buggier build than the latest? Ouch. My barely computer-literate relatives should not walk into a Costco and out with a computer with this initial experience.
Do you have any examples of specific things that aren't working for you?
I don't even think Windows 11 is all that different from a regular feature update similar to the ones that Windows 10 has been receiving for years now. It has the Windows 11 name because some visible UI changes have been made. Other than that, it's really the same OS as Windows 10 in the grand scheme of things.
Heck, Microsoft probably just fell into "doing whatever Apple is doing" by moving their OS from version 10 to 11 just because that's what macOS did.
Not that your IT department will be letting you update today, but something to look forward to is that Teams in Windows 11 uses the shared Edge WebView runtime (replacing Electron), which means it takes around 50% of the RAM it did in Windows 10.
Also, WSL graphics support (which isn't coming to Windows 10 for some reason), winget has been moved to stable (that is coming to Windows 10), and Windows Terminal is included in the box (but doesn't replace the cmd.exe or powershell.exe terminal emulator for some reason).
Neither cmd.exe nor powershell.exe are terminal emulators, rather they are both shells / scripting languages. The legacy looking crappy terminal window is usually conhost.exe.
Windows has a console interface unlike that found on Unix, using APIs rather than escape sequences to interface with the console. Also, its console implementation was historically coupled tightly with the conhost.exe application, which historically is both the terminal emulator and console endpoint simultaneously.
The blog series centered around
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-command-l... is the best resource I've found online that discusses Windows' legacy console support as well as some vision of how this subsystem has changed in the years since.
These changes improved OS interop, but also de-couple the legacy crap so that third party terminal emulators can be better supported on Windows generally (separating the console endpoint from the terminal display), allowing for the creation of `CreatePseudoConsole()`.
Prior to this, third party terminal emulators that wanted to support Windows apps had to run the legacy conhost.exe and shove the window way off the desktop (to hide), and then scrape the window for its contents. This is/was required so that the app has a console backed by a conhost.exe process (responding to the console apis). `CreatePseudoConsole()` fixes a lot of that mess.
Ahhh, yeah; keen on the new term. The WSL window support looks great too. I develop in Linux VMs, but my host is Windows 10 pro. Been sticking with vbox this far.
The hosts of popular gaming channel Linus Tech Tips challenged one another to switch to Linux. Maybe Windows 11 is so power user hostile and Steam Deck is the push everyone needed that 2022 will finally be the year of Desktop Linux?
I think the Steam Deck will be successful using Linux but that's because it's a device designed for a specific use. As a portable device designed to play games through Steam it will excel, because Valve has put a lot of effort into making gaming on Linux "just work."
As a general purpose desktop OS Linux still isn't there for most people in my opinion, as much as I want it to be. Every so often I try to make the switch to Linux full time and there's always some hitch that pushes me back to Windows. I don't even mind digging around and making changes in conf files if it will fix the problem, but I always encounter something that I consider a deal breaker where I hit a brick wall and just can't figure it out.
The result of development driven by "group studies" and "user feedback". When you conform to the ideas of the most basic users, you get a system unfit for those that that are not browsing Facebook and playing Farmville.
Windows lost 10% market share to mac and Linux since 2019. Microsoft should be firing more people and having singular leadership in direction. Make something for the developers, the graphic artists, the people that need their operating system to be apart of their work, not hinder it.
This falls on deaf ears of course, Microsoft is far from saving unless something significant of top leadership gets the boot and somehow attracts a new visionary that isn't already working in greener pastures.
Welp, I guess it's not for me. I'm unable to upgrade my Microsoft Service Pro (2017) as the CPU is not supported. Which is odd, the CPU is more than capable and all the other requirements are met. I get the feeling of planned obsolescence.
Same, I have a i7-6600k that should be more than sufficient (there are people that have upgraded with that processor), but I really won't bother. I've been toying with the idea of going Linux full-time again. I've done that 3 times in the last ten years and I really would like to just do it once and for all. Problem is there's always something small and nagging or an update that breaks something that worked and I was back on Win... The Linux experience is just not as polished as Win/Mac unfortunately :/
So the Microsoft product managers got bored with the current iteration of the start menu, and decided to feed their fetish by redesigning it again, and calling it a "new era for the PC". It's like watching a mid life crisis unfold.
In Windows 11, when you click the start menu, a rhombus stretching from the bottom left to the top right appears and the menu selections bounce around inside it like a DVD screen saver.
My anecdotal experience with 11 is it seems fine.
- My mechanical engineering applications have no issues, I can do my job.
- It defaulted to focus mode so there's been no distractions so far while I'm working.
- Not finding any friction with the OS yet, just nice touches with UI and an overhauled settings menu that seems fairly intuitive.
- The "Start menu" search seems to work much better and has always been my primary interaction with the OS, I never navigate, setup your index locations correctly and you'll never go back.
Notes:
I had switched to Edge back when it became Chromium based. Privacy aside, it's not IE and it works for me.
I don't tweak the OS unless there is friction with getting what I need done, if my apps run it's doing its job. If I need extra functionality then an application is responsible to add it, not the OS.
If you're trying to do something dramatically different to how the base OS works then obviously its not the OS for you, if you have no choice then try working with the OS and not against it. If you're trying to run old applications based on old APIs then you need an old OS don't expect them to always work in future.
A lot of complaints seem to sound like people who want to use a linux-based OS but for some reason refuse to?
I'm also curious what customisations are being made, are they actually functional or are you just spending too much time on r/unixporn and trying to make things pretty, please elaborate on your griefs.
Basically a TPM chip can be used a secure key store. This allows to use digital signatures to check if the boot chain, kernel or modules have not been tampered with.
I'm almost glad my PC doesn't support it. I have zero reason to upgrade my current setup, it doesn't look like a decent upgrade - and I'm spending most of my time in Linux based systems anyway. This might just be the push I need to just wipe this horrible software from my computer forever.
11 feels like XP with a new skin. I think they are shell shocked from vista and will never make drastic changes again. I don’t blame them vista was complete disregard for existing apps.
This may sound goofy, but at least 50% of the reason I personally switched to full-time Linux this year was the shock of terror I experienced when reading about the “no more moving the taskbar” thing. As a die-hard “taskbar on-the-side” guy (mostly because of all you kids and your big widescreen monitors!) the thought of not being able to change that filled me with just enough horror to finally migrate to Fedora earlier this year. Couldn’t be happier so far - honestly I wonder now why I didn’t do it sooner.
[+] [-] userbinator|4 years ago|reply
We’ve improved the experiences for touch in Windows 11 when you’re using a tablet without a keyboard. You’ll see more space between the icons in the Taskbar
What if I'm NOT using one?
Thank you Microsoft, for taking away even more customisation, dumbing down the OS to new levels, and shoving more adverts in our faces. Now people have even more reasons than before to try Linux or macOS.
A new era for the PC begins today
You're right about that --- an even more locked-down and user-hostile (all in the name of "security", of course) era begins.
As a long-time Win32 developer who started writing utilities for DOS and then moved to Win16 for a short while, the direction that Windows (and the PC platform in general) is going is really sad and horrifying to see.
[+] [-] throw_m239339|4 years ago|reply
This is a terrible update which adds very little of value for the end user, it only turns Windows non pro into some sort of SAAS that Microsoft is going to milk forcefully.
[+] [-] smackeyacky|4 years ago|reply
The sequence of events that means my main development machine is running Debian looked something like this:
1. Docker switches to WSL2, deprecates WSL1
2. My big dev box (running Windows Server 2019) can no longer test containers.
3. My laptop is running WSL2 so I'm spending more and more time in a Debian shell. All the CLI stuff works better there anyway.
4. I switch my big dev box to Debian and hey presto, suddenly Android Studio isn't a giant PITA. Let's try VS code. Oh ok, it's actually pretty cool.
5. I switch all my code base into VS Code.
6. What exactly do I need Windows for? A few games.
I now do most of my dev work on Debian and the transition was made painless by WSL2, Microsoft making Windows a bad choice for developers and the Docker people playing along. If you're already spending a lot of time in WSL2 and you do a mix of Android and .NET Core, you have zero reasons to stay on Windows.
[+] [-] cylon13|4 years ago|reply
It took a little bit of work but now my linux desktop works exactly how I want now, and Windows and macOS both feel strange to my muscle memory when I have to use them.
[+] [-] pid-1|4 years ago|reply
A few UI elements have changed places, but it mostly feels like Win 10 to me.
[+] [-] bhauer|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nvr219|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hdjjhhvvhga|4 years ago|reply
Not just power users - any user will need to throw their perfectly working hardware now unless fits MS's artificial requirements.
[+] [-] Someone1234|4 years ago|reply
Four months public beta wherein they fixed almost none of the major problems. Listened to almost none of the user feedback. Massive inconsistencies and half complete ideas abound.
This isn't the worst Windows I've tried, but it is perhaps the worst RTM. If this was still in public beta I'd call it "serviceable" as a daily driver if you can deal with the quirks.
But RTM-ing this? Shipping new computers with an even buggier build than the latest? Ouch. My barely computer-literate relatives should not walk into a Costco and out with a computer with this initial experience.
[+] [-] dangus|4 years ago|reply
I don't even think Windows 11 is all that different from a regular feature update similar to the ones that Windows 10 has been receiving for years now. It has the Windows 11 name because some visible UI changes have been made. Other than that, it's really the same OS as Windows 10 in the grand scheme of things.
Heck, Microsoft probably just fell into "doing whatever Apple is doing" by moving their OS from version 10 to 11 just because that's what macOS did.
To me the only thing about Windows 11 that resembles Windows Vista are the vague complaints revolving around people's cheese being moved (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F).
[+] [-] nojito|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] easton|4 years ago|reply
Also, WSL graphics support (which isn't coming to Windows 10 for some reason), winget has been moved to stable (that is coming to Windows 10), and Windows Terminal is included in the box (but doesn't replace the cmd.exe or powershell.exe terminal emulator for some reason).
[+] [-] waych|4 years ago|reply
Windows has a console interface unlike that found on Unix, using APIs rather than escape sequences to interface with the console. Also, its console implementation was historically coupled tightly with the conhost.exe application, which historically is both the terminal emulator and console endpoint simultaneously.
The blog series centered around https://devblogs.microsoft.com/commandline/windows-command-l... is the best resource I've found online that discusses Windows' legacy console support as well as some vision of how this subsystem has changed in the years since.
These changes improved OS interop, but also de-couple the legacy crap so that third party terminal emulators can be better supported on Windows generally (separating the console endpoint from the terminal display), allowing for the creation of `CreatePseudoConsole()`.
Prior to this, third party terminal emulators that wanted to support Windows apps had to run the legacy conhost.exe and shove the window way off the desktop (to hide), and then scrape the window for its contents. This is/was required so that the app has a console backed by a conhost.exe process (responding to the console apis). `CreatePseudoConsole()` fixes a lot of that mess.
[+] [-] pid-1|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Rapzid|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] csande17|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnebgd|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Someone1234|4 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvTCc0iXGcQ&t=783s
[+] [-] marcodiego|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MrMember|4 years ago|reply
As a general purpose desktop OS Linux still isn't there for most people in my opinion, as much as I want it to be. Every so often I try to make the switch to Linux full time and there's always some hitch that pushes me back to Windows. I don't even mind digging around and making changes in conf files if it will fix the problem, but I always encounter something that I consider a deal breaker where I hit a brick wall and just can't figure it out.
[+] [-] devwastaken|4 years ago|reply
Windows lost 10% market share to mac and Linux since 2019. Microsoft should be firing more people and having singular leadership in direction. Make something for the developers, the graphic artists, the people that need their operating system to be apart of their work, not hinder it.
This falls on deaf ears of course, Microsoft is far from saving unless something significant of top leadership gets the boot and somehow attracts a new visionary that isn't already working in greener pastures.
[+] [-] marcodiego|4 years ago|reply
Sorry to sound challenging but, as linux user, I really would like a source for that.
[+] [-] davemtl|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _hao|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lopatin|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dqv|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lowlevel|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oneepic|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] srgpqt|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] kivlad|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] worldmerge|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] literallyaduck|4 years ago|reply
Not a rhetorical question.
[+] [-] znyboy|4 years ago|reply
In my case on a Z270 PC from 2017, a BIOS update enabled the dormant and otherwise unadvertised TPM.
[+] [-] mistergoodwin|4 years ago|reply
Notes: I had switched to Edge back when it became Chromium based. Privacy aside, it's not IE and it works for me. I don't tweak the OS unless there is friction with getting what I need done, if my apps run it's doing its job. If I need extra functionality then an application is responsible to add it, not the OS.
If you're trying to do something dramatically different to how the base OS works then obviously its not the OS for you, if you have no choice then try working with the OS and not against it. If you're trying to run old applications based on old APIs then you need an old OS don't expect them to always work in future.
A lot of complaints seem to sound like people who want to use a linux-based OS but for some reason refuse to? I'm also curious what customisations are being made, are they actually functional or are you just spending too much time on r/unixporn and trying to make things pretty, please elaborate on your griefs.
[+] [-] codebook|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nassimsoftware|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] listic|4 years ago|reply
Can anyone please explain what TPM (2.0) is and whether it works for or against me?
[+] [-] marcodiego|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rasz|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rubyist5eva|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dnndev|4 years ago|reply
Make a new OS without the windows debt.
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dataflow|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] talentedcoin|4 years ago|reply