[3gg]

The real problem here is that Intuit and other companies lobby millions to maintain their status quo. The right thing to do would be to put every single dollar spent on these corporations into a government program that develops this kind of software or even does the taxes for you (this already exists in many countries in the EU.) Instead, in the US, you pay for Turbotax, they make a profit out if it, and then they use part of the money to lobby and keep the tax code and system rigged for their own benefit. I don't know if open source software is the solution here -- and as far as I know, the tax forms change every year, so it will be forever playing catch-up -- but it seems to be missing the point entirely.

[umeshunni]

I see this comment on every single article about taxation on reddit and HN, but can you be a bit more specific and identify what this lobbying does and actually point at some examples?

[junar]

The story of ReadyReturn in California is a pretty clear example.

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/521132960

[lelandfe]

https://www.propublica.org/series/the-turbotax-trap

Propublica is the definitive outlet for reporting on this stuff. They've spent years digging into bills and the millions that Intuit and H&R block spend lobbying around tax reform.

    > “For a decade proposals have sought to create IRS tax software or a ReturnFree Tax System; All were stopped,” reads a confidential 2007 PowerPoint presentation from an Intuit board of directors meeting. The company’s 2014-15 plan included manufacturing “3rd-party grass roots” support.[0]

Also of note was how after they conceded to making a government-mandated (bad, hamstrung) free filing software alternative for those making below $39k, Intuit blocked it from Google with robots.txt: https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-deliberately-hid...

...Which is important because if you start from anywhere else on their site, they'll begin hurling upsell dark patterns at the user, despite proclaiming "free" in copy in many places.

Right now, if I google "file taxes for free usa," the page "TurboTax Free Edition"[1] ranks higher – which is not the same software. And, of course, they do not link to the actual FreeFile page from there.[2]

Edit: turns out that Intuit will no longer be offering that government-sponsored Free File alternative after this year (disclosed in a blog post titled "Accelerating Technology Innovation," hah)[3]. Good riddance. The US Treasury Inspector General found that only 2.4% of taxpayers (2.5 million) actually used the free file software, whereas 5.5x that number could have filed for free, but were likely charged for it instead:

    > TIGTA estimates that more than 14 million taxpayers met the Free File Program criteria and may have paid a fee to e-file their Federal tax return in the 2019 Filing Season.[4]

[0] https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f... [1] https://turbotax.intuit.com/personal-taxes/online/free-editi... [2] https://freefile.intuit.com/ [3] https://www.intuit.com/blog/news-social/accelerating-technol... [4] PDF: https://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditreports/2020reports/2020...

[icelancer]

>> even does the taxes for you

This should exist. 80% of US citizens can just have this done right now.

>> government program that develops this kind of software

This should not for the remaining 20%.

[3gg]

Right. For most people that are on a payroll and maybe have a 401k and what not, tax preparation should be easily automated. In some EU countries, the government will send you a draft that you basically just have to sign and send back. For the remaining 20% (likely even less than 10%) of people with more exotic investments, it is probably safe to assume that they either have the knowledge to handle the edge cases themselves or the wealth to pay someone to do it for them.

It should also be noted that the IRS already has all of the information about you anyway. Your bank, your brokers, etc all send copies of your financials to them. At that point, filling in a tax return by hand is basically a potential form of punishment for not doing your homework right.

[j_m_b]

The US government is always honest and most assuredly will make their software with the end user in mind. Combined with the excellent customer support offered by the IRS and the US government's proven track record in creating stable software used by millions, this would be the best solution.

[3gg]

I can only assume you're being sarcastic, but this kind of attitude only benefits these corporations. It is a common tactic by the rich oligarchies to defund and delegitimize government institutions so that they are scorned by the population and eventually privatized -- a move that only benefits them in the end. I would suggest Noam Chomsky's "Requiem for the American Dream: The 10 Principles of Concentration of Wealth & Power."

[diegocg]

In Spain the tax filling software provided by the government was migrated to a JavaScript browser based interface years ago (it was a Java app before).

The interface is responsive. I literally can send my taxes while I shit. The biggest hurdle is that the day the tax season starts servers can't deal with the load (because apparently everyone wants to be Ned Flanders and file their taxes the first day).

Thanks to the national ID e-card (which does have a chip with a private key and a certificate signed by the government's certificate authority) I don't even need a login/password to enter the tax agency web site, the card proves my identity.

This is not some advanced e-government shit, it's routine and every advanced country is expected to have it (just like universal healthcare, clean water or paved roads). Even development countries are starting to have these kind of web services.

At this point I suspect some people get paid to spread bullshit like this.

[fnord123]

Sarcasm aside, the IRS customer support is excellent.