Former Navy submarine officer here. This sucks, but it happens. (It happened to a boat I was on.)
It could be hitting the bottom of the ocean (which nearly killed 130+ people on the USS San Francisco years ago - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_San_Francisco_(SSN-711)#Co...), it could be hitting another ship above it (coming to and/or operating at periscope depth is dangerous), or potentially another sub.
Invariably people get fired, and whatever happens becomes a lesson learned that the Navy trains on in the future.
A few years back two submarines from France and the UK collided - turns out that although the ocean is pretty big the places that missile subs are likely to hang are smaller than you might think:
Silly question, could it have been an animal? Would hitting a full-grown blue whale or anything less at 30 knots cause such a disturbance? Also is there any way to detect marine life at close proximity?
I saw the story about USS San Francisco earlier today and that led me to reading about the USS Thresher... Really sad story but it led to changes that years later resulted in the USS SF surviving intact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)
> Invariably people get fired, and whatever happens becomes a lesson learned that the Navy trains on in the future.
In the debates surrounding some of the most recent incidents (see, e.g., https://www.propublica.org/series/navy-accidents-pacific-7th...) I remember reading claims to the effect that submarine captains are the last ones in the Navy who actually know how to pilot a boat. I know that claim is hyperbolic rhetoric but those Pro Publica pieces really make me think it's not far from the truth, and that while submariner training may still be exceptionally rigorous and responsive to newly identified risks, that's not necessarily true in the case of surface ships.
This is going to be a stupid question, and I am going to already guess an answer but I have to ask.
Given that there is a collision about to happen, isn't there a sensor that would give some type of warning? And I'm guessing that the answer to my stupid question is that a sensor would give away the position of the submarine because anything emitting a signal would defeat the point of the sub?
Is this how the Navy deals with accidents? I can understand being fired for failing to do your duty but operating a sub is both hard and dangerous. Things are going to go wrong. If everyone did their job isn’t this just a learning opportunity?
How much visibility(Visual or sensory) there’s in a submarine? Are there cameras or sensors where you can observe in every direction or is it more like driving really large and old vehicle where you don’t know what’s happening around the vehicle most of the times?
This increase in recent collisions (including training jets) is probably due to the Navy's "five and dimes" sleep schedule that basically guarantees every squid mustang and sardine is a combat worthless zombie due to sleep depravation.
I understand the motives behind keeping it vague, but at a certain point doesn't the vagueness remove all value? What is the point in releasing a statement effectively saying "Our sub hit an unknown object for an unknown reason in an unknown location and the damages are unknown but do not threaten the ship"? Why say anything at all at this point?
I'd guess it was for the families of sailors. They may hear through the grapevine that there was an accident, but think it would be good to get out in front of it to state there was an accident but there were no life threatening injuries so that no undue grief is caused. It seems like it would be a little nerve racking thinking about a loved one even just working on a submarine.
they're essentially saying nothing. at some point word would get out that the sub hit something - people talk. and then the story would be "this sub hit something, and the navy is keeping it secret"
a statement like this is just an acknowledgement of facts that would become public anyways, and a pre-emptive refusal to provide any further details. it exists so that when a somebody asks a question, they can say "please refer to our already published statement"
The value is in providing accountability to the civilian world, even if we can’t have access to specifics for security reasons we can watch for any patterns of safety or diplomatic incidents or bother our representatives to go find out more info.
USS Connecticut (SSN 22) struck an object while submerged on Oct. 2, while operating in international waters in the Indo-Pacific region.
A Sea Wolf attack submarine struct something in the South China Sea. I get the feeling it hit another sub or some anti-sub defense. This is definitely a non-good event.
A lot of cargo containers are lost overboard. They don't all immediately sink to the bottom (sealed air, bouyant cargo, etc)
What's the sonar signature of a 40 foot shipping container that's just floating below the surface? Are you even going to hear it without going active?
What kind of damage does that do, if your submarine plows into it, even at a slow speed? My understanding is that the bow isn't entirely metal, that there's fiberglass (or something similar) where the sonar equipment is located.
> "The safety of the crew remains the Navy’s top priority."
Can any military really say this with a straight face? It's obviously not their top priority. If it was, they wouldn't be packing actual live humans into a pressurized nuclear-powered tube packed with explosives and send them into the black. Not to mention that whole "going to war" thing they occasionally do. That's pretty risky stuff, or so I hear.
Sorry for the snark. One can only take so much BS per hour, and I just got out of a meeting so my tolerance was low.
Looks like 11 sailors were hurt. Very interesting indeed. Some sort of reconnaissance buoy? Or perhaps they were traveling close to the bottom of the South China Sea and hit the bottom? China considers the South China Sea an internal lake, so they would think they’re within their rights to mine it or otherwise defend it with submarine nets or booms. I imagine within the context of a larger conflict the PLAN would enact all sorts of submarine countermeasures in the South China Sea. This is why the lack of clarity/conflict regarding ownership of that body of water is so dangerous for the rest of the world.
Happy injuries were just 11 people. If a submarine is submerged, it's kind of like a weird building without windows, even though it may be traveling at a pretty significant speed. If you imagine being in your own office and then suddenly getting thrown sideways, forward, or up/down, it's easy to imagine getting hurt.
"As for what the submarine hit, details remain limit. U.S. officials have reportedly said that there are no indications at present that the "object" was another submarine. "An official who requested anonymity because they weren’t authorized to speak on the record said that the area’s topography at the time did not indicate there was a land mass in front of the boat," Military Times reported."
7th fleet being 7th fleet. Being accident prone is better than the alternative - UAV tech out there Seawolf can't detect, or worse UAV tech that can detect Seawolf and decided to touch.
I wonder if this is all part of the game China and the US are playing. US gives AUKUS nuclear sub tech, China bops one of our most advanced nuclear sub classes...
It's important to note this is a Nuclear sub. https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a37898620/... If the Navy can't successfully run these complicated machines, perhaps we need to re-think the USA's need for submarine assets in the first place. Or at least, the role of the Nuclear Submarine in 21st Century warfare; perhaps fewer, higher-tech units --- with crack seal-type units only operating them --- might make more sense. High automation. Robotics. Things like that. For sure, never give a meatbag a job better performed by automation.
[+] [-] jedc|4 years ago|reply
It could be hitting the bottom of the ocean (which nearly killed 130+ people on the USS San Francisco years ago - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_San_Francisco_(SSN-711)#Co...), it could be hitting another ship above it (coming to and/or operating at periscope depth is dangerous), or potentially another sub.
Invariably people get fired, and whatever happens becomes a lesson learned that the Navy trains on in the future.
[+] [-] BitAstronaut|4 years ago|reply
Former enlisted here. Unfortunately death by power point doesn't solve the problem of overworked sailors.
[+] [-] arethuza|4 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Vanguard_and_Le_Triomphant...
[+] [-] holler|4 years ago|reply
I saw the story about USS San Francisco earlier today and that led me to reading about the USS Thresher... Really sad story but it led to changes that years later resulted in the USS SF surviving intact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)
[+] [-] wahern|4 years ago|reply
In the debates surrounding some of the most recent incidents (see, e.g., https://www.propublica.org/series/navy-accidents-pacific-7th...) I remember reading claims to the effect that submarine captains are the last ones in the Navy who actually know how to pilot a boat. I know that claim is hyperbolic rhetoric but those Pro Publica pieces really make me think it's not far from the truth, and that while submariner training may still be exceptionally rigorous and responsive to newly identified risks, that's not necessarily true in the case of surface ships.
[+] [-] pyinstallwoes|4 years ago|reply
Given that there is a collision about to happen, isn't there a sensor that would give some type of warning? And I'm guessing that the answer to my stupid question is that a sensor would give away the position of the submarine because anything emitting a signal would defeat the point of the sub?
[+] [-] mulmen|4 years ago|reply
Is this how the Navy deals with accidents? I can understand being fired for failing to do your duty but operating a sub is both hard and dangerous. Things are going to go wrong. If everyone did their job isn’t this just a learning opportunity?
[+] [-] ethbr0|4 years ago|reply
I imagine it'd be like being on a glacier, hitting another glacier.
[+] [-] nicoburns|4 years ago|reply
Is there any reason why they can't check what's above them before ascending?
[+] [-] mrtksn|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nimbius|4 years ago|reply
This increase in recent collisions (including training jets) is probably due to the Navy's "five and dimes" sleep schedule that basically guarantees every squid mustang and sardine is a combat worthless zombie due to sleep depravation.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2017/july/let-our...
[+] [-] catskul2|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dockd|4 years ago|reply
Silly question: how do you identify a target? Sound only? It seems like you would want something visual.
[+] [-] belter|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] slg|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bostonsre|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notatoad|4 years ago|reply
a statement like this is just an acknowledgement of facts that would become public anyways, and a pre-emptive refusal to provide any further details. it exists so that when a somebody asks a question, they can say "please refer to our already published statement"
[+] [-] captainoats|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AreYouSirius|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] protomyth|4 years ago|reply
A Sea Wolf attack submarine struct something in the South China Sea. I get the feeling it hit another sub or some anti-sub defense. This is definitely a non-good event.
[+] [-] paranoidrobot|4 years ago|reply
A lot of cargo containers are lost overboard. They don't all immediately sink to the bottom (sealed air, bouyant cargo, etc)
What's the sonar signature of a 40 foot shipping container that's just floating below the surface? Are you even going to hear it without going active?
What kind of damage does that do, if your submarine plows into it, even at a slow speed? My understanding is that the bow isn't entirely metal, that there's fiberglass (or something similar) where the sonar equipment is located.
[+] [-] executive|4 years ago|reply
https://twitter.com/LucasFoxNews/status/1446190294693781509
[+] [-] fooqux|4 years ago|reply
Can any military really say this with a straight face? It's obviously not their top priority. If it was, they wouldn't be packing actual live humans into a pressurized nuclear-powered tube packed with explosives and send them into the black. Not to mention that whole "going to war" thing they occasionally do. That's pretty risky stuff, or so I hear.
Sorry for the snark. One can only take so much BS per hour, and I just got out of a meeting so my tolerance was low.
[+] [-] zozin|4 years ago|reply
Looks like 11 sailors were hurt. Very interesting indeed. Some sort of reconnaissance buoy? Or perhaps they were traveling close to the bottom of the South China Sea and hit the bottom? China considers the South China Sea an internal lake, so they would think they’re within their rights to mine it or otherwise defend it with submarine nets or booms. I imagine within the context of a larger conflict the PLAN would enact all sorts of submarine countermeasures in the South China Sea. This is why the lack of clarity/conflict regarding ownership of that body of water is so dangerous for the rest of the world.
[+] [-] jedc|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pvarangot|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AreYouSirius|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] skunkworker|4 years ago|reply
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42669/one-of-the-navys...
[+] [-] arthurcolle|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spoonjim|4 years ago|reply
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2017/08/27/navy-swo...
[+] [-] dirtyid|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ragnot|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gojomo|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ngcc_hk|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qwertyuiop_|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hulitu|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] beej71|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] dsign|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] EastOfTruth|4 years ago|reply
You know what these subs are doing, right?
[+] [-] GeorgeTirebiter|4 years ago|reply