I paid money to cross the Pacific Ocean on a Maersk line, 300 meter cargo ship (us_en here). Many people asked me if I worked to be on board, and the answer was "no", Maersk did not allow it. The officers were mostly East Germans who needed a job, while the strictly segregated, "A-Bs" were almost all Pacific Islanders of some kind. The conditions were clean and professional, but I got the feeling soon that this was not a desirable job. The officers would spend at least 60 days on duty, often more.. without a vacation day, but had a weekly day "off" or two, except the Captain who is technically working at all times.
I enjoyed the travel and had a good voyage, with many small things to say about it at another time. As I learn about "business" and the world, I understand more about labor abuses, even with "respectable" companies. And, your outrage does nothing, because people who mistreat others professionally are quite used to the complaining, including yours. I am not at all surprised at this article.
And, your outrage does nothing, because people who mistreat others professionally are quite used to the complaining, including yours. I am not at all surprised at this article.
I enjoyed your post until this sentence. The article describes a situation gradually deteriorating into a crisis. The barrier between people complaining and things actually happening are indeed high but I still believe taking note of a crisis is a first step to acting.
this is also common on cruise ships and naval around the world. - officers are european, with more lately east european.
Then the staff or A-B are usually filipino, Vietmanese or Indonesian. Its more salary then back where they're from - and it has interesting cultural changes in their socities.
In the philippines, these are called "OFW" families. daddy is never home, but because he works "abroad" his family can have newer stuff, be in a better neighborhood, etc.
It's a trendy thing to say these days, but history shows that outrage and public opinion do quite a lot, and that is why people work very hard to manage it (including, these days, to try to appear unbothered). There are plenty of labor laws that the public has passed, and you can see, for example, SV companies responses to publicized labor abuses in their supply chains.
Yeah, that's why so many ships are registered to specific countries too, so they can operate with looser restrictions. It's basically "offshoring" but for the regulations. When I worked in fisheries, I remember seeing so many boats registered to Panama, and never knew why:
http://www.pmacertification.com/advantages-of-registering-a-...
> The officers would spend at least 60 days on duty, often more.. without a vacation day
Note that after X weeks on this schedule, the officers commonly get X weeks off at home as well. (Source: my brother is one.) The ABs though are a different story…
I did an Atlantic crossing on CMA CGM and it was similar. The officers were almost 100% French and everyone else on board (officers and crew) was Filipino. The longest-serving seaman had been on the ship for 18 months, but typical tours are in 6 month blocks.
The most interesting observation I had was that although there was an "officer's rec room" and a "crew's rec room", it ended up being a "French rec room" and a "Filipino rec room". The long tours don't particularly bother me, I think that's somewhat expected with maritime work.
My cousin is a Merchant Marine Engineer. Some big ships can't leave port without one, yet they are in short supply. So he's paid a lot per voyage. Two or three multi-week voyages and he'd done working for the year.
Early on in his career, an officer would request his passport. To make things go faster in port, all the passports could be presented at once for quicker clearing of customs etc.
Of course he learned immediately, this meant he could not leave the ship in foreign port. And the officer sandbagged when he requested his passport back. The result was, he was essentially held captive for several months aboard ship, several times longer than he was contracted for. And the ship could count on having an Engineer for every leg of the journey.
Now he knows better, keeps his passport on his person at all times.
Tie all the abandoned ships together and turn them into a floating city where the only law is the law of the sea. I mean, we're aiming for full on dystopia aren't we?
When I worked with a container shipping company there was a mechanic trapped on a ship for months past his shore date but there was no one to cover him. He looked at me, the computer guy from the office, carrying a large wrench, like he wanted to kill me just to get off the ship.
Something interesting to me is that this article comes a t a time when shipping is reaching record highs. We used to pay around 4k for a container from Asia to the US, now the price is 25k.
It looks like there a a large amount of volatility in the shipping system as this is not the first time we have seen price jumps and crashes. I remember hearing about shipping congestion/issues in SEA a couple years ago as well as periodic stories about congestion/issues at Longbeach.
With global trade ever on the rise, we should expect to see it remain profitable, unless there are too many companies coming in and trying to undercut each other.
Wow this seems like an easily solvable problem and one reason why we have the UN. I guess they'd rather be bickering in committees than helping individuals trapped on these boats.
How about the crew sells the ship for scrap. Had they left after their pay stopped the ship would be abandoned. Not sure how salvage works, but isnt there an element of "finders keepers"? If you dont work for the company as evidenced by them not paying you for X months, aren't you the finder of a big floating pule of scrap?
It looks like our demand/supply ecosystem was setup with negligible buffers and unprepared for any big disruptions. This is a chain reaction that might go on for quite some time. Meanwhile prices of goods is getting pretty crazy!
the civilized version would be to go the local authorities and initiate abandoned property/lien proceedings against the ship and the cargo for some port fees/fines for some violations by the ship (which is easy to commit if you're in control of the ship) or do a bit of freight Uber - after all you have a ship :).
We need to eliminate the limited liability company. Far too many abuses are perpetrated only because no one is ultimately liable, from cigarette companies selling products that kill to situations like this where ships and people are abandoned.
There's a picture of a "garden" bucket in the article, with an obviously just bought fresh onion on top of the dirt. I guess to communicate its "garden"-ness.
I cant help but wonder, if its OK to stage small details like that to be more favorable to the narrative, ... where is the line drawn?
Sounds to me like people will have to overthrow their governments to "go back to normal" anytime soon. The lack of normalcy increases the power of those imposing lockdowns and restrictions dramatically, and they aren't going to let go of that. There's no precedent for any government ever willingly ceding significant power. Just watch "V for Vendetta" - it's the same thing, except in the movie it was called the "St. Mary's virus". Incredible foresight.
[+] [-] mistrial9|4 years ago|reply
I enjoyed the travel and had a good voyage, with many small things to say about it at another time. As I learn about "business" and the world, I understand more about labor abuses, even with "respectable" companies. And, your outrage does nothing, because people who mistreat others professionally are quite used to the complaining, including yours. I am not at all surprised at this article.
[+] [-] CalChris|4 years ago|reply
https://www.mitags.org/course/able-seaman-course/
[+] [-] joe_the_user|4 years ago|reply
I enjoyed your post until this sentence. The article describes a situation gradually deteriorating into a crisis. The barrier between people complaining and things actually happening are indeed high but I still believe taking note of a crisis is a first step to acting.
[+] [-] rootsudo|4 years ago|reply
Then the staff or A-B are usually filipino, Vietmanese or Indonesian. Its more salary then back where they're from - and it has interesting cultural changes in their socities.
In the philippines, these are called "OFW" families. daddy is never home, but because he works "abroad" his family can have newer stuff, be in a better neighborhood, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Filipino_Worker
[+] [-] wolverine876|4 years ago|reply
It's a trendy thing to say these days, but history shows that outrage and public opinion do quite a lot, and that is why people work very hard to manage it (including, these days, to try to appear unbothered). There are plenty of labor laws that the public has passed, and you can see, for example, SV companies responses to publicized labor abuses in their supply chains.
[+] [-] burmer|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] namenotrequired|4 years ago|reply
Note that after X weeks on this schedule, the officers commonly get X weeks off at home as well. (Source: my brother is one.) The ABs though are a different story…
[+] [-] duckfruit|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ddoran|4 years ago|reply
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/21868783-the-cargo-ship-...
[+] [-] CGamesPlay|4 years ago|reply
The most interesting observation I had was that although there was an "officer's rec room" and a "crew's rec room", it ended up being a "French rec room" and a "Filipino rec room". The long tours don't particularly bother me, I think that's somewhat expected with maritime work.
[+] [-] throwaway1777|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] polishdude20|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tehjoker|4 years ago|reply
Just want to point out that yes, companies dismiss complaints, but they don't dismiss it when workers stop working together. Then they get panicked.
[+] [-] the-dude|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unethical_ban|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jacquesm|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] canadianfella|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] JoeAltmaier|4 years ago|reply
My cousin is a Merchant Marine Engineer. Some big ships can't leave port without one, yet they are in short supply. So he's paid a lot per voyage. Two or three multi-week voyages and he'd done working for the year.
Early on in his career, an officer would request his passport. To make things go faster in port, all the passports could be presented at once for quicker clearing of customs etc.
Of course he learned immediately, this meant he could not leave the ship in foreign port. And the officer sandbagged when he requested his passport back. The result was, he was essentially held captive for several months aboard ship, several times longer than he was contracted for. And the ship could count on having an Engineer for every leg of the journey.
Now he knows better, keeps his passport on his person at all times.
[+] [-] mesh|4 years ago|reply
The Outlaw Ocean https://www.amazon.com/Outlaw-Ocean-Journeys-Untamed-Frontie...
This is based on a series of articles the author wrote for the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/07/24/world/the-out...
[+] [-] mbil|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] erellsworth|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaqalopes|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andy_ppp|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] themaninthedark|4 years ago|reply
It looks like there a a large amount of volatility in the shipping system as this is not the first time we have seen price jumps and crashes. I remember hearing about shipping congestion/issues in SEA a couple years ago as well as periodic stories about congestion/issues at Longbeach.
With global trade ever on the rise, we should expect to see it remain profitable, unless there are too many companies coming in and trying to undercut each other.
[+] [-] stjohnswarts|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jollybean|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phkahler|4 years ago|reply
I'm sure there's a flaw in my logic...
[+] [-] sytelus|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] trhway|4 years ago|reply
>Without Pay, Food or a Way Home
the civilized version would be to go the local authorities and initiate abandoned property/lien proceedings against the ship and the cargo for some port fees/fines for some violations by the ship (which is easy to commit if you're in control of the ship) or do a bit of freight Uber - after all you have a ship :).
[+] [-] smabie|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thedigitalone|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] silexia|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bserge|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kevin_thibedeau|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hikerclimber1|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] h2odragon|4 years ago|reply
There's a picture of a "garden" bucket in the article, with an obviously just bought fresh onion on top of the dirt. I guess to communicate its "garden"-ness.
I cant help but wonder, if its OK to stage small details like that to be more favorable to the narrative, ... where is the line drawn?
[+] [-] m0zg|4 years ago|reply