Anti-Café

[dergachev]

There are two great ones in downtown Montreal, apparently owned by some cool Russian people. https://www.anticafe.org/

They are often the place of Russian language and culture events, which is how I heard of them.

I love the concept, but personally having to sign in to track time seems less "streamlined" to me than just buying a drink, so I didn't have a reason to go back, but maybe if the first hour was free in exchange for installing an app, it would be worth it. (I also don't hang out in cafes or coworking spaces much these days).

[rozab]

It seems like it could be made very streamlined. Sit down at a table and press a button on it, then just tap your card when you leave.

Of course in real life you'd have to install an app, make an account, and get spammed with requests to fill in surveys because we've completely lost track of what good user experience looks like.

[andrewshadura]

Fun fact: I created the initial version of this page.

[thiagocsf]

How did you first learn about anticafés?

[LudwigNagasena]

I don't understand why this type of place is not popular outside of Russia. People go there to play board games or video games together. Another popular type of location for such activities is a hookah lounge. Do young people in big European cities have no problems with finding a place to meet friends?

[the_gipsy]

When I was in my 20s in spain, we decided it wasn’t great to always hang out at bars and drink alcohol, and cafés offerings are too limited for prolonged time. We took out a rent of some half-cellar as a social club. We had pingpong, some videogames, and a mix of hobbies and tools around. We just pooled some money for rent, and additionally had some beverage/donations fridge for guests. It worked out fine for some years until some people moved out of town and it was getting too expensive.

I really loved it because there was always someone around, no need to arrange meetings with different people (which gets complicated proportional to age).

[Bayart]

From a French perspective, I don't really see what it brings besides novelty. Sitting all day long at a café is hardly problematic. Plus at noon you can just switch from coffee to beer or wine and order proper food without moving places ;)

Though these half café, half co-working places might be more comfortable if they cater specifically to the laptop crowd.

[fumblebee]

I spend a lot of time working in "normal" cafés.

I'm struggling to see the benefit of paying for time and having sustenance (e.g. coffee) be free, instead of paying for sustenance and having the time be free.

I've never once been asked to leave a cafe after I've paid for __, and subsequently spent a few hours there.

[Zababa]

We have a few in France, but I don't thing they are that popular.

> Do young people in big European cities have no problems with finding a place to meet friends?

It's a mystery to me too how people do this. From what I understand it's mostly through studies and/or work.

[ACow_Adonis]

Take consideration of the extent of public libraries, parks, actual cafes and co-working spaces that all provide these services in many places in the west. Many of those come with specific spaces for games and socialising and meeting rooms, and presumably often with a higher grade of food/service or are alternatively, free.

If you remove the semi-american notion of being 'stink-eyed' or hurried out of the cafe, then I become more confused about how such a space has sufficient demand to keep surviving.

I admit the thought of being charged by the minute irks me in a particular way...

[edwcross]

In Paris and other French cities, you have "game cafés", where you pay per hour (or you buy food which is worth a "1-hour ticket"), and they bring you the games, so you don't have to own them. Good for trying out new games (which they of course sell you, if you want to take home), but neither free food nor free time.

Otherwise, some places have public "ludothèques" for playing board games, like public libraries; but these are non-profit associations, and they usually don't sell anything.

[elpescado]

> Do young people in big European cities have no problems with finding a place to meet friends?

Here in Europe there are places like cafes, restaurants, bars, parks, libraries, museums, galleries, shopping centres, town squares, gyms, clubs or just plain outdoor areas that people use to hang out with one another.

[CTDOCodebases]

After working in a cafe that had to move customers on because it was consistently busy I wondered why places like this don’t exist.

In commercial areas there are a large number of people who want a casual space with a nice ambience to have a meeting. They don’t care how much it costs because either their employer is covering it or a positive outcome of the meeting will make the expense of the table insignificant in the broader picture.

[kleiba]

Why would I prefer such a venue over a traditional coffee shop which seems more like a flatrate venue compared to a pay-per-minute place (there's only so much coffee I can drink...)?

[Hamuko]

So you don't get stink eye from the staff as you spend five hours occupying a table while not ordering anything.

[atemerev]

This is more like pay-per-hour coworking with free food, not a coffee shop. It works because it takes away the decision what do you need to order and how long you can stay and work without ordering anything.

[xg15]

Isn't this more or less a co-working space?

[aloisdg]

It is somewhere between a co-working place and a café. I stayed for some month at an Anticafé in Paris. It was great. More noisy than a coworking but more alive. It is casual, cozy and chill.

[pjerem]

With good coffee ? :)

[W0lf]

Unfortunately, the one in Wiesbaden, Germany closed soon after it opened due to low interest.

[andrewshadura]

A similar place in Bratislava first shifted focus and became a mostly regular café, and then closed down during the first wave of the pandemic.

[mahoro]

The first Anti-Café was created by Ivan Mitin. He is known (at least in Russia) for creating projects which look utopian at first glance but have a good business model inside.

His current project is a village in Georgia where you can buy a share in a house, so you can visit it for some amount of days per year, proportional to share size.

https://chateauchapiteau.com/en

[eloisius]

So, a timeshare?

[Grumbledour]

I like the idea of a mix between working and cafe, in the sense that I would expect such a place to be nicer to work in than any random coffee shop while still having the same amenities. But I do wonder if this is not more expensive in the end. And just as some people may get anxious because they feel they would have to order something again at a normal coffee shop, I would get really anxious there just by time passing.

[Octplane]

In Paris, I've spent quite some time in these cafés pre-Covid and the experience had been good and bad, depending on when.

I used to go there with a friend of mine to work on various things we could do with a computer and a cup of coffee

Sometimes, it's very quiet and you can work there with no problem at all, others time, it's very crowded and you lack the quiet comfort of an actual office. In the most extreme setup, all seats are taken and you can't really find a place.

The price was pretty cheap (3-4€/hour) which made it both cheap if you were drinking one hot beverage and a cookie every hour, but definitely expensive if you were just planning on staying for an hour and get an espresso. Cheaper and less crowded than a Starbucks still. The fact that the snacks were unlimited was also pretty cool.

Over time, I've slowly switched to regular cafés which are sometimes not really busy outside lunch and dinner time and where you can have ample place to sit, work, while enjoying your hot beverages.

I'm sure it's popular amongst student as the overall scenery is slightly more concentration focused than a Starbucks. Also, cheap food.

[tedmiston]

I've also enjoyed visiting regular cafés (or really coffee shops in the states), mostly to have a beverage and work quietly from a laptop or read, at their off-peak or "anti-hours".

[villasv]

Unless the price per hour is very cheap, I’d rather pay for the coffee. There are a few work cafés around me that really don’t care if you stay 6 hours and only purchase a granola bar.

[p2t2p]

This is the thing I miss the most after leaving Russia. Coworking is too official and too committed this is basically like a coworking space with very casual atmospere and attendance.

[satvikpendem]

Why not just use WeWork or similar? They often have drinks and an espresso bar (no food usually though) but the massive benefit is the dependability of things needed for work, such as a strong wifi connection, desk space, ergonomic chairs etc.

IMO anti cafés seem to be the worst of both worlds, not necessarily dependable enough to work in while also seeming to be more expensive to work in compared to a regular café where you'd just get a drink or two for several hours.

[tedmiston]

I think WeWork vs anti-cafés is comparing apples to oranges.

I can't speak for other countries but you definitely can't dip into most (any?) WeWorks or the typical coworking space for a few bucks per hour on the fly.

It looks like the cheapest WeWork on Demand is $29/day, and I have no idea what city that's in. I don't doubt the rate in major US cities is $75-100+/day.

[isp]

I'd never heard the word "Anti-Café" before, but I used to hang out in one in Dublin [1] that called itself a "Time House".

This exact concept: pay-per-minute space, like a shared space living room (though also with included tea, biscuits, and popcorn).

[1] "The Clockwork Door" in Temple Bar, Dublin. Hasn't been open since Covid. https://www.clockworkdoor.ie/

[wink]

Definitely sounds better for people like me who kinda feel bad occupying a table in a full cafe after having finished my coffee/meal/drink.

[qwerty456127]

A bloody awesome concept. I enjoyed it so much. And a great (instantly profitable if you do everything right) small business idea by the way.

[torgian]

This just... kinda sounds like an Internet cafe. I don’t see the difference, except maybe these “anti” cafes are more expensive

[daniel_iversen]

This is neat, and seems fairer than the working-at-a-cafe where you have to consider how often to order snacks and drinks to be a worthwhile contributing customer :)

Are there any websites that lists good anti-cafes by city?

[Cthulhu_]

Look up co-working spaces as well, that's probably a better source for working spaces for hire. Some have decent catering, too.

[bettysdiagnose]

Isn't a key aspect of cafe culture that you buy a coffee and then can stay as long as you like?

[gverrilla]

Pay by the minute will never work: it gets people anxious, looking at the time all the time [ :) ].

Also the way it mixes fun and work ain't consistent imo.

[rich_sasha]

I like working in cafes every now and then. I'm quite conscious that there's an expectation to keep buying coffee / cakes. How much is enough?

Also after a while, I don't want another coffee, just want to sit in peace in the environment - but that's not an option really. I could just buy a coffee and sit next to it, but that seems wasteful and bizarre.

[Slix]

Workshop Cafe (now closed) in San Francisco was an interesting American version of this kind of cafe.

[soapdog]

Oh no, I remember having a great time working from there. It used to be a great place.