I've noticed not only the local 7-11 PoS terminals now have embedded cameras, but also Home Depot's newer all-in-one computers at the self-checkout include an embedded camera.
It's obnoxious and rude. You wouldn't be OK with anyone shoving a camera point-blank in your face while doing business with them. That's exactly what these businesses are subjecting their in-person retail customers to.
Except that's not what 7-11 did here. They took photos from a tablet, as select customers were taking a survey.
Doing that without consent is still obnoxious, but a far cry from embedding a camera in the PoS terminal that captures everybody as they check-out. 7-11 might also do that, but it wasn't reported here.
Home Depot's newer all-in-one computers at the self-checkout include an embedded camera.
Makes me glad I never - ever - use self-checkout.
I'm not interested in helping replace human jobs with robots just so a bean counter in a boardroom somewhere can buy a second boat.
Occasionally, the self-checkout "team member" will come over to me while I'm standing in line and offer to help me use the self-checkout. I tell her, "I'd rather not help {$company} replace your job with a robot."
I expect a lot of times they think I'm a kook. But every once in a while they pause and I can see the realization washing over their faces. Then I feel like I've accomplished a small thing that day.
The cameras that are certainly watching you at checkout are the same ones you know or should know are watching you in every retail establishment in the country. The ones overhead. Retailers use a relatively small number of cameras mounted overhead in order to have broad coverage of a large area that is hard to obscure.
I do not know for absolute certain, and couldn't divulge it if I did, but I am about 99% sure that the cameras mounted in the all in one systems are part of the standard equipment included with that model of computer NOT part of store surveillance coverage which is more than adequately served by existing cameras. That is to say that it would be a waste of resources to watch the other cameras watch you.
The key is that they include user facing sliding camera covers designed for users to secure their privacy. This wouldn't be true if they were intended to watch you.
The reason you are being watched is that people steal and people steal MORE when dealing with a machine because they feel less guilty about doing it perceptibly to a machine rather than cheating in front of an actual cashier.
The Atlantic did a piece on it where it was found that around 1 in 5 people stole from SCO and about 4% of merchandise that went through SCO wasn't paid for.
>I've noticed not only the local 7-11 PoS terminals now have embedded cameras, but also Home Depot's newer all-in-one computers at the self-checkout include an embedded camera.
Starbucks card readers too. Pointed right up at your face. I emailed the local store manager about it, who said he'd get back to me but never did.
Walmart and Target do it too. Insert card, supply an identity to go with the frames the camera is capturing. Do that a few times and you've got a training set to identify an individual.
Maybe the article has missed detail but it seems to imply that 7-Eleven was only asked to stop and to destroy the inappropriately collected data and was not given a fine nor any other punishment. Is that correct?
Isn't that the benefit of being a large company. You do something bad, you get a slap on the wrist and they politely ask you to stop. You do it again, same slap.. and they say pretty please. Eventually, you just realize that as long as you keep paying the politicians you can do pretty much whatever you want with little to no consequence?
Same with Rite Aid stores around my school. The auto checkout machine has been equipped with cameras since pandemic (about one yr ago). It gave me a sense of intrusion.
That’s the point. The self checkout cameras are just there to let you know you’re being watched; why else would they make them as in-your-face as they are?
Their self-checkout systems have an insane number of cameras per station, including one pointed right at your face. I don't doubt it's being saved for expression analysis as each product is swiped.
Are you a corporation going around asking for answers, photographing them and storing the images for long term storage without informing them about this? If not, then no, you are not breaching the privacy of anyone.
I know in the US corporations are basically the same as humans, but the rest of the world haven't gotten than dystopian yet.
No. It was wonderful when the person who worked the deli at a customer site where I worked for a few weeks learned my face and remembered what I liked to order. If I wanted privacy, though, I could get it.
However, scale matters. An action being condoned between two individuals does not imply that it's acceptable when repeated millions of times.
It shouldn't generate any outrage if a police officer tailed a suspect from a vehicle description and (publicly visible!) license plate number. It should generate outrage if the police department installs automated license plate readers at intersections throughout the city, and it becomes impossible to drive anywhere without being tracked.
> Am I breaching the privacy of the people I saw at the grocery store yesterday because I can remember what their faces look like?
You remembering faces is fine as it doesn't allow you to share with others what your mind "recorded". The amount of detail is questionable and you'd probably not remember everyone and everything but what strikes you as unusual/suspect etc..
Second, since you're not a machine you wouldn't be able to run algorithms on the data you recorded, you'd make a few inferences here and there and that is normal but you wouldn't be able to study the psychology of every customer that entered your store and use it against them.
No, and neither would the corporation be if they were doing that.
But you are not a corporation, nor are you a computer, nor are you storing that data in any appreciable amount or manner in which it could be referenced for the purposes of operating a corporation.
As much as I dislike this line of argumentation, I think it is important to address it, because people seem to be applying wrong standards and comparisons, when it comes privacy.
[+] [-] pengaru|4 years ago|reply
It's obnoxious and rude. You wouldn't be OK with anyone shoving a camera point-blank in your face while doing business with them. That's exactly what these businesses are subjecting their in-person retail customers to.
[+] [-] alistairSH|4 years ago|reply
Doing that without consent is still obnoxious, but a far cry from embedding a camera in the PoS terminal that captures everybody as they check-out. 7-11 might also do that, but it wasn't reported here.
[+] [-] thr0wawayf00|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dylan604|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] reaperducer|4 years ago|reply
Makes me glad I never - ever - use self-checkout.
I'm not interested in helping replace human jobs with robots just so a bean counter in a boardroom somewhere can buy a second boat.
Occasionally, the self-checkout "team member" will come over to me while I'm standing in line and offer to help me use the self-checkout. I tell her, "I'd rather not help {$company} replace your job with a robot."
I expect a lot of times they think I'm a kook. But every once in a while they pause and I can see the realization washing over their faces. Then I feel like I've accomplished a small thing that day.
[+] [-] michaelmrose|4 years ago|reply
I do not know for absolute certain, and couldn't divulge it if I did, but I am about 99% sure that the cameras mounted in the all in one systems are part of the standard equipment included with that model of computer NOT part of store surveillance coverage which is more than adequately served by existing cameras. That is to say that it would be a waste of resources to watch the other cameras watch you.
The key is that they include user facing sliding camera covers designed for users to secure their privacy. This wouldn't be true if they were intended to watch you.
The reason you are being watched is that people steal and people steal MORE when dealing with a machine because they feel less guilty about doing it perceptibly to a machine rather than cheating in front of an actual cashier.
The Atlantic did a piece on it where it was found that around 1 in 5 people stole from SCO and about 4% of merchandise that went through SCO wasn't paid for.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/stealin...
[+] [-] hammock|4 years ago|reply
Starbucks card readers too. Pointed right up at your face. I emailed the local store manager about it, who said he'd get back to me but never did.
[+] [-] impressivemess|4 years ago|reply
Even after Covid is over, I'd feel comfortable continuing with the mask!
[+] [-] JohnFen|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] black_13|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] hkai|4 years ago|reply
I think a much bigger issue with tech is censorship and surveillance of political opposition, not the recording of someone's age and gender.
[+] [-] avalys|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] capableweb|4 years ago|reply
I know in the US corporations are basically the same as humans, but the rest of the world haven't gotten than dystopian yet.
[+] [-] LeifCarrotson|4 years ago|reply
However, scale matters. An action being condoned between two individuals does not imply that it's acceptable when repeated millions of times.
It shouldn't generate any outrage if a police officer tailed a suspect from a vehicle description and (publicly visible!) license plate number. It should generate outrage if the police department installs automated license plate readers at intersections throughout the city, and it becomes impossible to drive anywhere without being tracked.
[+] [-] onemoresoop|4 years ago|reply
You remembering faces is fine as it doesn't allow you to share with others what your mind "recorded". The amount of detail is questionable and you'd probably not remember everyone and everything but what strikes you as unusual/suspect etc..
Second, since you're not a machine you wouldn't be able to run algorithms on the data you recorded, you'd make a few inferences here and there and that is normal but you wouldn't be able to study the psychology of every customer that entered your store and use it against them.
[+] [-] devmor|4 years ago|reply
But you are not a corporation, nor are you a computer, nor are you storing that data in any appreciable amount or manner in which it could be referenced for the purposes of operating a corporation.
[+] [-] A4ET8a8uTh0|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] munificent|4 years ago|reply
Scale and context matters.
[+] [-] holknas|4 years ago|reply