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beanjammin | 4 years ago

It takes 30 hours for VW to build an ID.4 vs 10 for Tesla to build a Model 3. That won't be an easy gap to close.

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HWR_14|4 years ago

Does it matter how long it takes? Doesn't just total output matter?

Heck, "throw more servers at it" has been an accepted practice. Who cares if it takes 30 hours as opposed to 10 if you can have 3x the number of cars under construction at one time.

sliken|4 years ago

First of all worker 30 hours of labor * factory workforce is a significant fraction of the cost of a car, and not easy to improve.

Additionally a plant that takes 30 hours per car is typically going to have less output than a plant that takes 10 hours per car. Typically each minute during production the car is taking up space, being worked on humans or robots, etc. Additionally efficiencies favor shorter pipelines. Generally a 10 hour pipeline is physically shorter than a 30 hour. Parts, staff, troubleshooting etc is easier on a smaller pipeline. Additionally having each car bridge 4 working shifts for the workers has overheads of it's own compared to 1-2 shifts. Doubly so if you are trying to iterate quickly.

Imagine an assembly line moving at 0.5 mph, for the same physical foot print you could have 3 lines that are 10 hours each instead of a single line that runs for 30 hours. Now imagine there's a issue that shuts down a line for an hour, it's better if it's 1/3rd of your capacity down instead of 100%. If you try an improvement, it's better to put 1/3rd of your production capacity at risk instead of 100%.

azinman2|4 years ago

I’d be curious to know what’s QA in that breakdown, or where you got that data, and what Tesla’s numbers have been over time.

But let’s assume that’s true. Tesla has been building electric cars for how long? VW is basically just getting started for real (modular platform for all their cars unlike the eGolf), and still makes ICE cars as well.

It’s never a good idea to discount your competitors. I doubt Elon does even if comments on HN do.

zz865|4 years ago

Seriously, does anyone really care about how many hours it takes?

judge2020|4 years ago

The economics of scale trickle down into cost savings for the consumer, even if it is by only a fraction of what the manufacturer saves. There's a reason the id.4 costs about the same as a base Model 3 and you get less of a car for it (not factoring in federal tax credit, which might be returning to Tesla soon anyways).

patagurbon|4 years ago

The manufacturers no doubt. Musk, and by extension Tesla, has been seriously focused on ease of manufacturing. Probably since the huge problems Tesla faced in the late 2010s.

dexterdog|4 years ago

Does that include how much they have to fix after the fact because of non-existent QA?

hef19898|4 years ago

We aren't seriously thinking that Tesla beats the likes of VW in mass production of cars, are we?

mehrdada|4 years ago

Teslas are much simpler designs to build at scale, while traditional automakers have perfected the ICE design and manufacturing, they see everything through that eye and bring the warts and complexity from the devil they know (as an example, most non-Tesla EVs do not have a floor battery architecture). It is not at all inconceivable for Tesla to leapfrog the traditional automaker in building EVs they design. That does not contradict VW's ability to produce ICE at scale.

jliptzin|4 years ago

Why not? Once you switch to building EVs you can instantly throw your 100+ years of experience building internal combustion engines out the window.

bigtex|4 years ago

How many Id 4's have water in the trunk due to poor build quality?

chmod600|4 years ago

You mean labor hours? Time in the factory from beginning to end?