[deanclatworthy]

All the sentimental comments here around travelling by train make me wonder if Europe is just not good at this. I did the interrail about eight years ago and some of the worst nights sleep were had on the cramped bunk cabins. Arguments over air conditioning (too cold low down, too hot up top), people staying up late when you want to sleep, bad hygiene etc.

Even the night trains to the north of Finland which are seen here as some kind of benchmark are noisy with earplugs. They stop multiple times in the night so you wake to the beeping of the doors opening and closing.

I think there’s a market for rail travel. I love the idea. But it’s just not comfortable at all, or at least not economical to travel comfortably.

[bartread]

> They stop multiple times in the night so you wake to the beeping of the doors opening and closing.

Triggered.

This is one of my biggest bugbears with early trains into and (particularly) late trains out of London: endless overly loud beeping and automated announcements at every single station. I'd usually like to catch up on an hour's sleep whilst I'm on the train but unless I'm completely exhausted even earplugs don't cover the din.

I get that some people have impaired vision or are hard of hearing, and therefore need affordances (which I am strongly in favour of), but is it strictly necessary for those affordances to torture the rest of us? Surely we can do better in the 21st century?

"Oh, but the announcements need to be loud because people who've fallen asleep might otherwise miss their stops." They might. I've done this (on the tube, as it happens). It was incredibly annoying and resulted in a very expensive taxi journey home, but it was also entirely my own fault and responsibility. I took it on the chin, and learned a lesson. Again, is it necessary to torture everyone so a few people avoid this every night? I'm not so sure it is.

[BoxOfRain]

>automated announcements at every single station.

The security announcements are the worst offenders for this in my experience, I used to travel by train a lot and the blaring auditory nag every five minutes when you're waiting in a station about reporting anything suspicious combined with the fact many stations are a bit grotty and Brutalist really adds up to an Orwellian experience.

Come to think of it, I'm fairly sure the British government's obsession with three-element slogans started with the trains; "see it, say it, sorted" is massively burned into my brain which I guess is the intention.

[go_elmo]

This. Recently took the TGV. When no automated greeting was playing after each stop it was some broken speaker from the cabin crew, truly horrible without noise cancelling headphones & decent volume music.

Also needing over 2h to book a ticket as things are made extra complicated to accomodate each parties interests in international train lines as well as the systems which are just horrible to use.

[ryanlol]

There are ridiculously nice rail travel options in Europe, but they are expensive.

https://www.belmond.com/trains/europe/venice-simplon-orient-...

https://www.belmond.com/trains/europe/scotland/belmond-royal...

https://www.goldeneagleluxurytrains.com/trains/golden-eagle-...

Bonus trans-sib option, technically starts in Europe: https://www.goldeneagleluxurytrains.com/journeys/trans-siber...

[distances]

Quite luxury price indeed, $18k for the two-week Trans-Siberian ride.

[88840-8855]

China's approach seems to be one of the best: bullet train soft sleeper, capsule-like design, individual windows.

https://youtu.be/DAOYz8FcDiQ

Japan has also nice sleepers, but they are not bullet trains, plus, way way more expensive, and not a mass phenomenon.

[lmm]

There's one (and a half) last scheduled sleeper train in Japan (as distinct from luxury cruise trains), the Sunrise Izumo / Sunrise Seto, which has fairly reasonable prices, although as you say it's a conventional train and much slower than the Shinkansen.

[eynsham]

The trains you link to only go at 150km/h to minimise noise, so using ⩾300km/h-capable rolling stock might be a bit of a waste.

[Zababa]

I love taking the train in France, as long as at least 80% of the wagon I'm in is empty. It's a very nice experience when you're almost alone, or with a few friends, but when filled with people it's horrible.

[BelenusMordred]

You can pay a fraction more and get your own compartment if communal sleeping takes it toll.

[Doctor_Fegg]

Indeed, on the British sleeper routes, you no longer have the choice to travel communally - i.e. the railway company won’t ever book you into a cabin with a stranger.

[deanclatworthy]

At least when I was doing the interrail those options were not available with the ticket without paying considerably more. I've taken 2 person cabins here to Lapland (from Helsinki, Finland) and they exhibit the problems in my original comment. And of course, if you're going to go solo in a 2 person cabin then you'll have to cover the cost of the other person.