[hedberg10]

> my cousin had been taken so young?

He wasn't taken. He took himself. Exercise: Everytime you remove agency, reintroduce it.

"I am depressed". No, you are depressing yourself. "I am helpless". No, you are making yourself helpless. These are active processes. Let's get more controversial: "I am being bullied". No, you are letting people bully you.

I know this is harsh. I know the societal memes and phrases are the warm place. A sigh, the Soma of "Nothing can be done" or "Somebody needs to do something!!" is not a solution but paralysis.

You can read it in the article: The parents did everything for the addict, he did nothing himself. It didn't work out now, did it? Never does.

(Not absolving the Sacklers of their guilt, that is a separate issue)

[dang]

Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. If you want to make a nuanced point about personal responsibility, ok, but turning it into a big binary polarity and then blaring condemnatory, dismissive rhetoric at the pole you disapprove of is no way to do this.

You say you know it is harsh—that's already a reason not to do it here. Maybe "harsh" can do some good when there's already a strong relational connection with the other person. (Emphasis on maybe, because people who take harsh stances generally are paying more attention to their own ideas than to the person they're commenting on—but no doubt it does happen sometimes.) Here, however, you're broadcasting to thousands of people over the internet, with zero relational connection. In such a context, it's merely provocative and destructive, and one could even say selfish.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

[hedberg10]

> A good critical comment teaches us something.

I feel as if I did that. Maybe my writing comes across way differently, maybe my comments are not as direct as they could be - but if that is already too upsetting for this crowd, you will never get any actual critical comments. You will never arrive at any traction, at any truth. Too bad, I expected more here. My error.

Case in point:

> Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says

Nobody replying to me did that. Amazing.

[_qn3k]

I started writing out a much longer response to this, but it just got very ranty so I'll cut it short. If you insist on such a reevaluation as to why people aren't in their best state, a one word answer "lazy", "attention seeking" (okay thats two words, you get the idea), "weak" isn't going to cut it. You need to continue to ask yourself why that is the case, why are these people so apparently lazy, that they would allow it to work negatively upon them? I obviously don't buy your argument, I think the expectation of complete agency in a society run on hundreds of thousands of people is a bit of a fantasy, but you could have a point. You just don't have anything yet.

Another argument against it, why not turn the mirror on yourself. Why are you not richer, stronger, more popular, happier? Maybe you are somewhat of all those things already, but a wild guess is that your not the strongest, richest, most famous and happiest person in the world. So why not, are you weak, lazy and shallow? Or, perhaps is the truth a bit more complicated?

[hedberg10]

I have seen the homeless as people to be pitied and helped. Just weak people, down on their luck. So you help them, right?

I let a homeless man sleep in the hallway of my building. He took a shit in front of my door.

Now if I had seen the homeless as what they actually are, maybe weak, maybe helpless, but still people with agency who can be absolute assholes, that wouldn't have happened.

And I hate that this is overlooked. Maybe if the parents in the article wouldn't have fallen into this trap, their son would still be alive.

The assumption everyone downvoting seems to make is that I don't have compassion or as you do, I see them as "weak", "lazy" or "attention seeking" (notice how you are seeing them as that, not me).

I can have compassion and ask them to do their part. That actually solves the problem.

[AussieWog93]

I don't think it's fair of you to use quotation marks when the person you are responding to didn't use that language.

Not is it productive to misinterpret his comment as perpetuating a tired trope and then launch into an emotional rant against something that literally nobody here is supporting.

GP did make a fair point - learned helplessness does nothing but exacerbate your suffering, and taking agency and responsibility for your own mental state is the most effective way to improve things.

Whether the solution comes through lifestyle changes (leaving toxic environment), a simple change in viewpoint or SSRIs, labelling yourself as depressed or burned out and then succumbing to your new fate is never productive. I know this because I've experienced both.

[sasaf5]

I am not entirely in agreement with parent comment, but I need to call false dichotomy on your second argument. There's a whole range of acceptable states between depressed and happiest.

[baq]

> "I am depressed". No, you are depressing yourself. "I am helpless". No, you are making yourself helpless. These are active processes. Let's get more controversial: "I am being bullied". No, you are letting people bully you.

most people are social animals. it's easy to be an individualist if you have the trait and nigh impossible if you don't.

[hedberg10]

Fair point. My own character traits certainly color my viewpoints.

[wruza]

What exactly does that restatement change? Also, what is your background?

[hedberg10]

It removes the victim mindset.

My background is a recovering asshole, partially failing, aka the son in the article.

[louissm_it]

While advice like this might have been alright if it was in a self-help book where the OP was looking for ways to approach the situation, it is completely uncalled for and inappropriate in this situation.

[ddorian43]

> "I am depressed". No, you are depressing yourself.

What about Bipolar and Schizophrenia, do you think about them same as depression?

[OneTimePetes]

That sounds like a warm place for a anti-social person.

[Igelau]

You need to lay off on the Jordan Peterson. It's more complicated than "clean your room".

> "I am depressed". No, you are depressing yourself.

You're assuming a brain that's in good working order. It's difficult to imagine a different one. Consider that not everyone's window into consciousness works like yours does.

[Fnoord]

This post is victim blaming 101.