Slightly OT - Isn't it obvious that NSO must be able to control every "copy" of Pegasus it sells?
They wouldn't sell it unless they were absolutely sure it wouldn't be used against its own people and they have no problem selling to their arch enemies.
NSO's defense has always been "we just sell the tech and can't be held responsible for what our clients do with it" (this was clear from the Darknet Diaries episode).
If you consider they must be able to control it, and are therefore perfectly capable of monitoring it, then they become much more complicit in what's being done with it. Same story if somehow 1 license = 1 target. This is something that I don't think was explored enough in DD.
> (this was clear from the Darknet Diaries episode)
think that episode also mentioned it iirc ... that the plausible deniability goes out the window the minute they host their own infrastructure.
also NSO Group goes through great length to obscure who they're selling to using shell and shelf companies. actually indistinguishable from how narco terrorists and organized crime operates:
https://forensicnews.net/the-covert-reach-of-nso-group/
To be fair, it is quite murky to what extent groups like Al-Haq are associated with the PFLP (which, with its history of aircraft hijackings and suicide bombings, is undoubtedly a terrorist group). There is plenty of purported evidence of financial and personnel links out there, and I really doubt HN is the right forum to decide either way (unless someone is an expert).
Does this really matter? Australia passed the "Identify and Disrupt" Law, which allows them as well as any government in the The Five Eyes (FVEY) international security pact to access and modify all digital communications - so why would this story even be important? This is our new world, where any government can access and modify any digital information.
> The US Commerce Department is unequivocal that the new sanctions against NSO Group and Candiru is connected to their software being used to government officials, journalists, activists and business people.
Putting them on the entity list just limits what US exports can go directly to them. Basically I can't sell a zero day to the NSO group, but I can buy one from them.
This can hardly be considered a sign something is changing, it's the bare minimum that can be done for PR purposes.
It's rather difficult to say what prompted this. First intuition would be that it has something to do with NSO not giving backdoor access to certain US organizations, but it could be an actual political shift away from supporting stuff as murky as this.
I dunno anything about these particular organizations so can't judge who is right here but the fact any country government can declare anybody they don't like a terrorist or another kind of criminal and have them cancelled or hunted in the whole world has long baffled me.
This title is quite editorialized. The whole controversy is over whether these are human rights organizations as this website claims, or terrorist groups as the Israeli government claims.
It should not be a surprise that the NSO group, as an Israeli company, is working against groups that the Israeli government considers to be terrorists.
> human rights organizations as this website claims, or terrorist groups as the Israeli government claims.
These NGOs get funding from the European Union, and Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch condemned Israel outlawing these human rights NGOs - so it Israel against not just this magazine, but the EU, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch etc.
Front Line Defenders was founded in Dublin in 2001 with the specific aim of protecting human rights defenders at risk (HRDs), people who work, non-violently, for any or all of the rights enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR). Front Line Defenders addresses the protection needs identified by HRDs themselves.
How do they identify and vet a qualifying "Human Rights Defender"? Do they have a membership roster?
Kind of OT, but are there Palestinian human rights organizations that are focused, or at least cover human rights violations by Palestinian government?
Seriously, every Pegasus-related news slightly killing the Apple "privacy" myth. And this is good 'cause we deserve better mobile solutions than the strange duopoly, where one company pays $9B to another for the right to mining private data.
People have warned against paternalistic OS from the start. It might be too late for now.
You have an advertising ID on your phone and it scans your images because you are a suspect with limited control over you device.
To be honest, on bad days I just think people don't deserve anything better. The amount of free work people have put into alternatives is incredible, but there certainly was a refusal to think ahead.
You may be right, but I don't see how this is relevant here. I hate shady tracking practices too, but we're talking about human rights violations, which is a far bigger issue and has nothing to do with how much Apple tracks you. Even if it didn't track you, nothing stops malware with arbitrary kernel privileges from tracking you anyway. Security vulnerabilities will always exist. It happens on Android too, it just doesn't make headlines that often because iOS is (or at least claims to be) more secure.
Historically, this hasn't always been the case, and the US were actively opposed to Israel's covert Nuclear program, for example, which was built with French support against the wishes of the US government at the time. The world has change significantly since then, including the French and American governments alignment of interests and weighing to pros and cons. I'm sure other people here can provide more nuance than I'm able to on the 'why', although there is a lot of emotional nonsense and baggage that comes with this particular topic, so you need to take it with a healthy dose of skepticism that there are NO blanket right and wrong people here and there is blood on everyone's hands.
Essentially, though, ignoring conspiracy theories and set in stone agendas, Israel simple represented a palatable partner in an incredibly complex, hostile part of the world and there is simple more in common between the two countries, despite their own at times competing interests. But US interests align far more with Israel, or politically moderate countries like Jordan than some others in the region.
I'm sure there is an element of playing to your electoral base TODAY, but honestly, I think it's just pragmatism at the end of the day in a region where the math can be brutal and bloody, and there are no easy choices of solutions, and real partnerships are fleeting in the region since the powerbrokers in one country or region today maybe be out of the picture tomorrow. Despite internal politics in Israel looking like a bloodsport from outside, they are at least a consistent voice in a highly turbulent region.
That's just my relatively uninformed, I'm sure biased opinion, but I don't have a fixed opinion on who the good and bad people here are, and thing there's a lot of blame in every direction, and no real will to change that on any side.
“Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for American national security.”
— Alexander Haig (former Secretary of State under Reagan and four-star general.)
Today they have a lot of common economic interests and trade, similar to a European country.
Israel and the US have deep strategic and economic relations.c Tel Aviv is one of the hottest startup hubs in the world targeting mainly the US. The US sells military technology to Israel and vice versa. Most of Israel's enemies are hostile to the US as well: Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas to name a few. Not sure it is relevant but historically the Jewish-American community was pro Israel and lobbied for Israel in the US and in Israel there is a significant amount of American-Israeli citizens in diplomacy and power positions
(e.g. prime ministers, ministers of foreign affairs). Culturally, Israel is the closest state to the US and Europe. Also, most people in Israel's big cities have a good grasp of the English language.
A more instructive question might be (warning: this is meant to get people thinking, but at least I'll be straight forward about it):
Why does nobody else follow up on the UN resolution from 1948?
(Just like in the case of India / Pakistan UN decided to divide the area into two parts, one for Jews, one for Arabs.)
I can also ask: why does so few other support the single somewhat functioning democracy in the region?
Then, on to your question: After initially being supportive of Israel, USSR took the other side early on and propped up the surrounding nations with weapons so US was kind of forced to do it.
Later on it has turned out to be a beneficial although controversial deal for both parts.
There are biases on all sides, and it’s often hard to extricate oneself from them to see the facts as they are.
You could flip the question and ask why is so much of the world anti-Israel, no matter what?
The data on this is that in 2020 the UN adopted 17 resolutions condemning Israel and 6 for the rest of the world.
Now it’s possible that Israel is so much worse than the rest of the world, and the US is biased. Or perhaps there’s a lot of anti-Israel bias globally and the USA is actually closer to neutral.
Culturally both are fairly similar - both are "western"-style democracies (e.g. representative democracies with constitutions that value rule of law, independent judiciary, etc)
And, the following might be controversial - but many of americas strategic allies do much worse shit than israel, they just get called out on it less. Hell, Saudi arabia is literally murdering people in embasies and still seems to have a good relationship with the usa somehow.
>Can someone explain the strong ties between US and Israel, and why US stands behind Israel, no matter what?
Others have tried to explain this, but I want to note that this impression is a tiny bit exaggerated.
The US has a strong relationship with Israel, but there are countries which have better ties with the US, or at least get more from the US - South Korea has a direct defence alliance, Pakistan gets (read: extorts) more money, Britain has the 'special relationship', Australia just got nuke subs, etc.
Also, can you think of any US President which did not have a public fight with Israel since Carter? Excepting maybe Trump, all of them had some nasty public spat with an Israeli government.
I suspect the main source of this impression is that it's useful for both Israel and its enemies.
Nuanced question with answers more appropriate to long form articles or books, but some reasons: deep cultural links on the left (Jewish Americans plus a history of socialism and kibbutz culture that captured the imagination of many boomers) and the right (religious Christians in particular), foreign policy geo political alignment during the cold War, deep economic ties "startup nation", personal ties for many Americans, the fact that many simply love the idea that there could be an ultra liberal "Berlin by the beach" in the heart of ultra conservative middle east.. the list goes on.
[+] [-] stef25|4 years ago|reply
They wouldn't sell it unless they were absolutely sure it wouldn't be used against its own people and they have no problem selling to their arch enemies.
NSO's defense has always been "we just sell the tech and can't be held responsible for what our clients do with it" (this was clear from the Darknet Diaries episode).
If you consider they must be able to control it, and are therefore perfectly capable of monitoring it, then they become much more complicit in what's being done with it. Same story if somehow 1 license = 1 target. This is something that I don't think was explored enough in DD.
[+] [-] DyslexicAtheist|4 years ago|reply
think that episode also mentioned it iirc ... that the plausible deniability goes out the window the minute they host their own infrastructure.
also NSO Group goes through great length to obscure who they're selling to using shell and shelf companies. actually indistinguishable from how narco terrorists and organized crime operates: https://forensicnews.net/the-covert-reach-of-nso-group/
Unit81, and Unit8200 FTW :(
[+] [-] Vervious|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AHappyCamper|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pyronik19|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 2rsf|4 years ago|reply
> The US Commerce Department is unequivocal that the new sanctions against NSO Group and Candiru is connected to their software being used to government officials, journalists, activists and business people.
[0] https://twitter.com/AlexMartin/status/1455892710586519553
[+] [-] boomboomsubban|4 years ago|reply
This can hardly be considered a sign something is changing, it's the bare minimum that can be done for PR purposes.
[+] [-] mach1ne|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qwerty456127|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] koheripbal|4 years ago|reply
The nice thing about western countries is that they require due process of law. ...which was followed in this case.
[+] [-] lacker|4 years ago|reply
It should not be a surprise that the NSO group, as an Israeli company, is working against groups that the Israeli government considers to be terrorists.
[+] [-] VictorPath|4 years ago|reply
These NGOs get funding from the European Union, and Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch condemned Israel outlawing these human rights NGOs - so it Israel against not just this magazine, but the EU, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch etc.
[+] [-] golemiprague|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] hanniabu|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] lr4444lr|4 years ago|reply
Front Line Defenders was founded in Dublin in 2001 with the specific aim of protecting human rights defenders at risk (HRDs), people who work, non-violently, for any or all of the rights enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR). Front Line Defenders addresses the protection needs identified by HRDs themselves.
How do they identify and vet a qualifying "Human Rights Defender"? Do they have a membership roster?
[+] [-] encryptluks2|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] oytis|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bhouston|4 years ago|reply
http://www.mezan.org/en/post/21740/Al+Mezan+Calls+for:+Solut...
http://www.mezan.org/en/post/24069/Press+Release%3A+Al+Mezan...
http://www.mezan.org/en/post/24043/Position+Paper%3A+Human+R...
[+] [-] crakenzak|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fortran77|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paulcarroty|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] raxxorrax|4 years ago|reply
You have an advertising ID on your phone and it scans your images because you are a suspect with limited control over you device.
To be honest, on bad days I just think people don't deserve anything better. The amount of free work people have put into alternatives is incredible, but there certainly was a refusal to think ahead.
[+] [-] nyuszika7h|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] bogwog|4 years ago|reply
Hacked iPhones?! I bet they were side loading apps! /s
(relevant: https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/03/apple-craig-federighi-side...)
[+] [-] DeathArrow|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ktownsend|4 years ago|reply
Essentially, though, ignoring conspiracy theories and set in stone agendas, Israel simple represented a palatable partner in an incredibly complex, hostile part of the world and there is simple more in common between the two countries, despite their own at times competing interests. But US interests align far more with Israel, or politically moderate countries like Jordan than some others in the region.
I'm sure there is an element of playing to your electoral base TODAY, but honestly, I think it's just pragmatism at the end of the day in a region where the math can be brutal and bloody, and there are no easy choices of solutions, and real partnerships are fleeting in the region since the powerbrokers in one country or region today maybe be out of the picture tomorrow. Despite internal politics in Israel looking like a bloodsport from outside, they are at least a consistent voice in a highly turbulent region.
That's just my relatively uninformed, I'm sure biased opinion, but I don't have a fixed opinion on who the good and bad people here are, and thing there's a lot of blame in every direction, and no real will to change that on any side.
[+] [-] guerrilla|4 years ago|reply
“Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for American national security.” — Alexander Haig (former Secretary of State under Reagan and four-star general.)
Today they have a lot of common economic interests and trade, similar to a European country.
[+] [-] iddan|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] skinkestek|4 years ago|reply
Why does nobody else follow up on the UN resolution from 1948?
(Just like in the case of India / Pakistan UN decided to divide the area into two parts, one for Jews, one for Arabs.)
I can also ask: why does so few other support the single somewhat functioning democracy in the region?
Then, on to your question: After initially being supportive of Israel, USSR took the other side early on and propped up the surrounding nations with weapons so US was kind of forced to do it.
Later on it has turned out to be a beneficial although controversial deal for both parts.
[+] [-] alignItems|4 years ago|reply
You could flip the question and ask why is so much of the world anti-Israel, no matter what?
The data on this is that in 2020 the UN adopted 17 resolutions condemning Israel and 6 for the rest of the world.
Now it’s possible that Israel is so much worse than the rest of the world, and the US is biased. Or perhaps there’s a lot of anti-Israel bias globally and the USA is actually closer to neutral.
[+] [-] bawolff|4 years ago|reply
Culturally both are fairly similar - both are "western"-style democracies (e.g. representative democracies with constitutions that value rule of law, independent judiciary, etc)
And, the following might be controversial - but many of americas strategic allies do much worse shit than israel, they just get called out on it less. Hell, Saudi arabia is literally murdering people in embasies and still seems to have a good relationship with the usa somehow.
[+] [-] yyyk|4 years ago|reply
Others have tried to explain this, but I want to note that this impression is a tiny bit exaggerated.
The US has a strong relationship with Israel, but there are countries which have better ties with the US, or at least get more from the US - South Korea has a direct defence alliance, Pakistan gets (read: extorts) more money, Britain has the 'special relationship', Australia just got nuke subs, etc.
Also, can you think of any US President which did not have a public fight with Israel since Carter? Excepting maybe Trump, all of them had some nasty public spat with an Israeli government.
I suspect the main source of this impression is that it's useful for both Israel and its enemies.
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