Russia plans $65bn tunnel to America

[timf]

That article is four years old. The project was greenlighted by the Kremlin last week, according to this: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3764606/Plans-for-...

[aasarava]

The project may have been blessed by some official at the Kremlin, but no doubt it would need to be approved -- and even partly financed -- by the US and Alaskan governments to actually happen. It would be nice if reporters even bothered to ask if anyone in office on this side of the ocean had even heard of the Kremlin's renewed interest in this.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44212283/ns/world_news-europe/

[gritzko]

A regional news agency says the project is in "research stage", not greenlighted yet. http://vostokmedia.com/n113027.html

[mbreese]

Funny, it used to be a $65B project (The Times, 4 years ago)... now it's a $100B project (The Sun, this week).

[tesseract]

[2007]

The first hard part is building the tunnel.

The second hard part, as alluded to in the article, is that there is essentially no infrastructure (highways, railroads) within 2000 miles of the Russian terminus, and the Alaskan side is not exactly a thriving metropolis either.

[tesseract]

Also I don't have the numbers in front of me so it would be cool if anyone can back this up, but I believe transport by ship is cheaper per container-mile than both rail and highway transport. Is there a reason that balance would drastically change in the near future?

[prawn]

Both sides would develop very quickly if this tunnel were created.

[madaxe]

Don't forget that they'll have to cross a few dozen active fault lines, too. It's not going to happen.

[brianbreslin]

There is a pending battle over oil rights under the arctic shelf, russia's stake is potentially trillions of barrels of natural gas and billions of oil in that section of the world. As cold weather and deep sea drilling options expand, they will have to build out more stuff in this section of Siberia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_exploration_in_the_Ar...

[zubairov]

Absolutely crazy idea. I lived there in Siberia, there not even a railways available. The reasonable-price logistics is only possible 2 month a year. This idea is a political hype. Such kind of idiotic projects appear shortly before elections and pass away shortly after.

[ctdonath]

Seems one can make a decent living from proposing mega-projects with price tags so vast and political inspiration so great it's not hard to to convince someone to commission a multi-year "study" at a "paltry" cost big enough to keep a small team living comfortably.

Another example project was construction of a billion-dollar indoor ski resort near Atlanta. Somebody was making a good buck "studying" that one ... until the nearby lake, proximity chosen to supply water for making snow, dried up.

[nostromo]

A lot of commenters are mentioning that the distance is greater than the distance by sea -- but the difference isn't as much as you might think.

Look at the shortest route between LA and Beijing and you'll see that you already go over Siberia and the coast of Alaska. http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=LAX-PEK

[wisty]

Let me guess - some people don't understand cartographic projections? The shortest distance between two points is not a strait line on a map[1], especially when you are a long way from the equator.

[1] For most maps. Gnomic maps (image - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gnomonic_projection_SW.jpg) are designed to show the shortest distance as a straight line. I think the Dymaxion Map aka Fuller Map (image - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dymaxion_map_unfolded.png) is also OK.

[ximeng]

For those with WebGL, this is helpful to visualise:

http://data-arts.appspot.com/globe

[nivertech]

Russia's biggest problem is centralized major cities: Moscow and St Petersburg, everything else is a "province".

US major cities are spread geographically: Boston, NYC, DC, Miami, Chicago, Seattle, SF, LA.

Seattle was the gateway to Alaska. What's a gateway to Siberia? Vladivostok? Does Vladivostok has something comparable to Amazon, Microsoft and Boeing?

[pedalpete]

The smart part of this equation is in placing Russia as a central connection of goods through Europe/Asia/North America.

Much like Eremites is trying to do in being an air transport hub between Asia and Europe.

[prawn]

I think you mean "Emirates." An eremite is a religious recluse.

[SeanLuke]

Given Russia's history in high-tech construction (and particularly tunnels, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lefortovo_tunnel) I'm surprised that an oligarch-financed tunnel would get a positive response from the US.

[ahi]

Considering the success of the Big Dig in Boston, I'm not sure we can criticize too much.

[ChrisNorstrom]

The plan alone worries me greatly for the wildlife in Alaska, it's one of the world's last refuges for untouched nature and the last thing we need is to send any sort of human traffic in that direction.

If I were the richest person in the world I would probably buy up as much land as possible and keep civilization away from it. Keep it wild for future generations.

[hugh3]

Alaksa is really really big.

Rail lines aren't really all that wide.

Compute the fraction of Alaska and Siberia's land from which you'd be able to see or hear the trains going past and it's... quite small.

[Tsagadai]

There is no such thing as "untouched nature". Humans have been almost everywhere on the planet since the late 19th century (exploration of polar regions, deserts and submarines). There are hundreds of thousands of native Alaskans who have a problem with your idea that no one ever lived there.

[meric]

I thought you had noble intentions when you said "... last refuges for untouched nature and the last thing we need is to send any sort of human traffic in that direction.".

but when you mentioned "...for future generations.", turned out not.

[blhack]

Not to mention the fact that Canada is sitting on what is considered to be the largest oil reserve in the world.

This is also a very smart long-term strategic move to run a pipeline from Canada to Eurasia and Africa.

[hugh3]

This is also a very smart long-term strategic move to run a pipeline from Canada to Eurasia and Africa

This is what I don't get. Isn't there plenty of oil in Eurasia? And plenty of demand for oil in the Americas? Do the Russians really expect that in the future the flow of oil will go in that direction?

[hugh3]

Does anyone have a good handle on freight costs?

If I wanted to send a container of stuff from (say) China to the US, would it be cheaper to send it in a ship, or go round the long way through a Bering Strait tunnel (assuming such a thing actually already existed)?

[analyst74]

freight cost is tricky to compare, but considering Trans-Siberian Railway is competing with the long-way sea route, and is mainly winning on speed and safety thanks to pirates. *

I think shipping via ship is going to be way cheaper than the to-be-built tunnel, unless, maybe if you are shipping from Siberia to Alaska?

*reference:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Siberian_Railway#Developm...

[jleader]

I suspect that ship would beat train hands-down on costs, but train could still win for time-critical uses.

[Dramatize]

Makes you wonder how they will deal with shifting tectonic plates?

[blhack]

You don't built it underground, you build it floating in the water (anchored to the sea floor). Build stretch into the tunnel, and then expand it every $foo years as needed.

[ceejayoz]

I'd imagine California and Japan have given a decent amount of experience with that.

[pnathan]

Interesting! As someone who lives in the Pacific Northwest, this sounds really cool. Maintained, it could really open up some economic expansion in that part of the world.

[AshleysBrain]

Any particular reason this article from 2007 has been resubmitted now? Has a deal been struck at last? Any developments? Or...?

[kloncks]

Approved by Kremlin last week.

[seagaia]

This is AWESOME. Well, at a naive and fleeting glance it is. I'm sure it has political, environmental, etc. etc. implications. And it got the green light. I'm wondering how big the tunnel is. I would assume it would have to fit many many trains at once, I mean one or two tracks would probably be a waste...

[zavulon]

I can only imagine what (and who) will be smuggled via that tunnel.

[rokhayakebe]

That was my first thought. Then again, it wouldn't be anything that isn't already coming in via ships.

[beej71]

In Soviet Russia, the tunnel bores you!

[hugh3]

While I must admit that is one of the better applications of the In Soviet Russia meme I've seen, I'm still modding you down for it.

[radishroar]

Any good Palin jokes?

[strait]

No, but as I sit here I can feel Putin burrowing his head into Alaska's groundspace.

[danvoell]

Does it start at Sarah Palin's house?