[Xunxi]

The world is such an odd and funny place now. My 2007 Toyota Avalon Touring drives pretty well with none of those 'trinkets'. The utilitarian value of a car seems to be an outlier to a lot of people these days.

I wonder if we'll be able to get back to the place where products we manufacture will span decades and commands good value.

Electric cars in my opinion should have fewer points of failure but here we are, hankering for adornments.

Maybe I'm wrong.

[xoa]

>My 2007 Toyota Avalon Touring drives pretty well with none of those 'trinkets'.

Does it? This reminds me of a constant refrain on the internet about nearly any medical or safety advancement, where people say something along the lines of "we survived just fine before". But we didn't. Life expectancy for most of human existence, and right up until early 1900s, was mid-50s. And we had billions fewer people, because the death rate was so much higher despite a much higher birth rate. US modern car fatality rate per 100k people peaked around 1970, at around 26. Now the rate is 11. Or if you want to normalize by VMT (vehicle miles traveled), the rate is still over 4x less, 5x less compared to the 60s. And that's just fatalities. What about simpler injuries, or even plain old fenderbenders which can still be quite expensive and time consuming?

These days, accidents involving blind spots are an obvious next thing to pursue. Looking at stats from the NHTSA and such, seems to be around 2000 deaths per year from parking lot accidents and 91000 injuries. 360 degree cameras have obvious value there. Even more so because now we care a lot more about fuel efficiency, but aerodynamic shapes don't always lend themselves to great native visibility particularly since we also care about driver/passenger protection.

Cooled seats is more of a comfort feature, but then again a significant number of accidents are due to people getting sleepy, irritated or otherwise distracted. And too hot a car can definitely affect that. Cooling the seat can be an efficient way of greatly improving comfort without the energy of cooling all the air in the car so much.

Carplay/Android Auto obviously have more minimal safety implications. They could be negative if they are badly implemented and increase distraction, or positive if they allow more control without removing attention from the road via voice or navigation that is more attention friendly then trying to use a phone while driving. But nevertheless they are now becoming more important features in terms of navigation and roles that were previously played by radio.

So as is so often the case I don't think a naked "my ancient car 'drives fine'" is justified as the standard that should exist forever. And I say that as someone still driving a pretty old car (2006 Volvo) much of the time. And it was fine for the time. But that doesn't mean I think progress stopped in 2006 anymore then it stopped in 1996, 1986, 1976, 1966, or 1956.

[WalterBright]

> Life expectancy for most of human existence, and right up until early 1900s, was mid-50s.

LE in the US started ramping up around 1800 and increased all through the 1800s.

[onion2k]

The utilitarian value of a car seems to be an outlier to a lot of people these days.

The utilitarian value of literally all cars is that they get you from A to B. Your Avalon has a V6 engine, tire pressure monitoring, alloy wheels, side airbags, traction control, a stereo system, climate control, power adjusted front seats, etc. You don't really need any of that.

Or maybe you literally can't go anywhere unless you have a leather-covered gear shift knob.

[thatfrenchguy]

I used to think like this, that my manual transmission was just fine and that really you don’t need all that tech.

Then I bought an electric car and besides being so much nicer to drive, automatic emergency braking saved my and my partner’s life at least twice on 101 from insane drivers merging like crazy.

[bmitc]

Of course it drives well without those conveniences because they don’t have anything to do with how it drives. They are niceties to have though because they increase comfort and usability.

For one, cooled seats is almost a must if you want to be comfortable in certain climates. Even in cooler climates, I typically run hot, and having my back cooled is a major benefit to my comfort and reducing fatigue on longer trips and even shorter trips.

Also, a Tesla and Kia EV6 cost a bit more than your 2007 Toyota.

My 2015 Kia has all these niceties and is still basically brand new and still has warranties in the drivetrain. It will easily last over a decade. For the Tesla, I get it, because they add stuff that does indeed break all the time. Kia is a different story.

[yashap]

I used to think the same before I got a car with trinkets. Heated/cooled seats (and heated starting wheel) are very nice on cold/hot days. Safety features like auto-braking and blind spot warnings actually do make you safer. Apple Carplay is great for Google Maps, podcasts, etc. Backup cameras are sooooo nice for parking, as are the audio beeps letting you know how close you are to objects (beeps faster as you get closer) - I can reliably get a few inches from other cars while parallel parking in tight spots, and never hit them.

None of these features are necessary, but they’re really nice.

[lordnacho]

Have to say you're right, apart from the 360 cam. It allows me to park confidently in a way that just can't be done without it. Also if you have kids is good to know they aren't going to be squashed.

[cpuguy83]

Electric vehicles _do_ have fewer points of failure, as I understand it, as it relates to your argument: while actually driving.

[pornel]

The base model of EV6 doesn't have most of these fancy features.

There are simpler EVs, e.g. Peugeot e-208 and Renault Zoe are "normal" cars with an electric motor.

There's also the new cheap Dacia Spring that has nothing fancy. The base model doesn't even have a touch screen, and looks like a car from the early '90s.

[have_faith]

> Doesn’t even have a touch screen, and looks like a car from the early 90’s

brb buying a Dacia

[kalleboo]

The electronics for these trinkets are so cheap now though, that there is not much gained in removing them.

I drive a 2017 Suzuki Spacia, which is a bargain basement family micro- van (kei box car). It cost around $16,000 new, I got it for $8,000 used 2 years later.

It has auto emergency braking, lane departure warning, 360 degree parking cameras, CarPlay/Android Auto, and smaller niceties like auto lights, auto mirrors and keyless entry, and one power sliding door.

And it's a mild hybrid, so it has a Li-ion battery and electric motor assist (mild hybrid means it can't run on the electric motor only, it can only assist in acelleration).

All these trinkets for $16,000 i still find pretty impressive

[csunbird]

Exactly, I want my Golf, but electric. 150-200hp, Carplay and Android Auto is all I need.

[jtbayly]

The ash tray and the paddle game. That's all I need!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZTdqh-a0tU

[pornel]

I think you're describing VW ID.3.

[xattt]

There was the e-Golf.

[beamatronic]

I would love to see a minimalist electric car with no air conditioning, no LCDs, cloth seats and hand crank windows.

[anchpop]

I understand why you would prefer cloth seats and no screens (I totally agree), but what do you gain from hand crank windows or the absence of air conditioning?

[rsynnott]

Dacia Spring nearly gets you there, but even the basic version has electric windows. Possibly some Chinese models would fit this.

[imperialdrive]

Toyota Avalon, the car I will own as long as they manufacture them. Amen.