top | item 29311222

Djinn Split Keyboard

214 points| rolph | 4 years ago |github.com | reply

143 comments

order
[+] Symbiote|4 years ago|reply
I have a gallery of split keyboards, including this one. It's useful if you need an overview of what's available.

I have an ErgoDash with a Dvorak layout and a 3D printed adjustable tenting stand. The Djinn is fairly similar, though the additions are features I don't care for (encoders, screens, LEDs).

I've bought most of the parts to make a Lagrange, but still need to order the PCBs. I expect this to be an improvement on the ErgoDash, since I can include the missing keys (F1-F12 etc).

Just buying a Kinesis Advantage2 would probably have been a whole lot less effort.

https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/

(And a discussion from nine months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26179311 )

[+] tadfisher|4 years ago|reply
Mine isn't there: https://github.com/tadfisher/nyx-kb

Of course, I need to do a better job at advertising and keeping up with trends like OLED screens and rotary knobs. But as a plain-Jane Bluetooth split ortho keyboard, I fervently enjoy typing on it.

[+] palmetieri2000|4 years ago|reply
Sweet list and just what I've been looking for lately, thanks so much.

https://github.com/YangPiCui/ErgonomicVerticalKeyboard

This one is hilarious, the design caught my eye with its unique shape and the mandatory pro-Mormon proclamation (which at first I thought was a joke about the shape of the hands on the keyboard being prayer-like) until the creator told me to repent my sins.

[+] colemannugent|4 years ago|reply
Thanks for putting this together. You're doing the Lord's work.
[+] sokoloff|4 years ago|reply
Wow. That’s quite the collection. I thought it was a splurge to buy my first Kinesis about 22 years ago. Since upgraded it to the USB (always the Advantage style) and love it.
[+] bedobi|4 years ago|reply
which of these come preassembled and are in stock?

pretty much all of them seem to be DIY, or, simply out of stock

[+] davidjytang|4 years ago|reply
thank you for showing me your gallery. immense enjoyment.
[+] farnsworth|4 years ago|reply
I have the Moonlander split keyboard, and absolutely love it. But the problem I constantly have with split keyboards is keeping them aligned the right way. Each half is constantly being pushed and shifted or rotated slightly on my desk so it feels like the alignment is a little off every time I sit down to use it. The infinite adjustability is definitely a perk but I feel like I should be taping them down once I get them set up
[+] achikin|4 years ago|reply
It is not because of the split design - it’s because of the ortholinear layout. Classical staggered layout is much more tolerant to the posture and angle.
[+] dpapavas|4 years ago|reply
I know what you mean. I solved the issue with a specially designed adjustable linkage on the Lagrange (https://github.com/dpapavas/lagrange-keyboard). It took a while to finetune the relative position anf attitude (which, turned out to be what one'd expect: 0° toe, separation at about shoulder width), but now it's finally consistently aligned every time. (The palm keys also help by doubling as guides to keep your hands in the right place.)
[+] boomskats|4 years ago|reply
I've got a bunch of ergo tented boards with very little desk contact area - I actually spent all of last week typing on a borrowed Moonlander.

To solve the problem you describe I use a non-slip material by a company called Dycem[0], which I understand is primarily used by amputees and people with limited use of their limbs.

I've always gotten that niggly 'slight misalignment' feeling, ever since my first Ergodox 7-8 years ago. I know exactly what you're talking about and Dycem almost completely eliminates this for me. I lay my wrist rests and my board on it, and can make intentional microadjustments as I type, but those stay in place for weeks as long as I don't accidentally knock them out of place.

It's not cheap and there may be other similar alternatives, but I can say this one works.

[0] https://dycem-ns.com

[+] CarVac|4 years ago|reply
This is why after I got used to a split layout, I recreated it in one piece.

Also because I type with the keyboard on my lap and I had to use the split on a piece of plywood to keep it flat...

[+] fleaaaa|4 years ago|reply
Add a deskmat or 3m sticky foot, it helps a lot.
[+] mleonhard|4 years ago|reply
The Goldtouch V2 has a hefty clamp that keeps the keyboard in position. It also has 30-degree tenting.
[+] h3mb3|4 years ago|reply
Where are all the 75% ortholinear split keyboards? All the super-duper ergo boards have very few keys and/or a strange layout (like this Djinn).

Currently the best keyboard for my left forearm's RSI has been Mistel Barocco MD770 [1] but I've recently been aware how the staggering maybe forces the fingers to travel in slightly unnatural ways. These videos [2][3] from Ben Vallack demonstrate this nicely.

Thus, I'd like to test an ortholinear one, but with all the normal 75%/tenkeyless board keys in place. I personally don't need to optimize the right hand keys as much so I'm not interested in learning an oherwise crazy new layout just to test out if the ortholinearity helps. And, I really like having the split since keeping two halves of the board further apart helps keeping my posture in control. But this combo seems to be difficult to find.

[1] https://www.mistelkeyboard.com/products/d11cf7a73da49468e2a5...

[2] https://youtu.be/Ho_CFfdsmc8

[3] https://youtu.be/1C2bJkzIaPE

[+] Symbiote|4 years ago|reply
There are not many.

You could try the X-Bows Knight / Nature, although that's still a rearrangement of the right side keys.

If you deselect "Traditional" and set the minimum keys to about 78, you'll see how few options there are: https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/

[+] mleonhard|4 years ago|reply
My RSI was mostly solved by switching from a split keyboard to a tenting keyboard (Goldtouch V2 at 30-degree tenting angle) and a vertical mouse (Evoluent). Then it was finally solved by strength training of my back and shoulders (10 sessions of "Body Pump" fitness class and ongoing maintenance). Maybe those things would work for you, too?
[+] zmix|4 years ago|reply
If I could get an ErgoDox with Trackpoint, I would be all set. Sadly, it seems, they do not have a Trackpoint integration. The only commercially available I know is the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard V2, but I like the ErgoDox more. And they offer it only as an addon device.
[+] js8|4 years ago|reply
I am considering properly learning an ergonomic keyboard, but I like the minimalist ones - like the GergoPlex. They are more affordable and there is something appealing in minimizing the finger movement.
[+] Separo|4 years ago|reply
I've found that the annoying thing with these floating split keyboards is that you don't develop the muscle memory because the keys are always in a slightly different position each time it moves around.

You need a bracket to keep the halves in exactly the same spot every time when you're in split mode in order to get that muscle memory.

[+] fleaaaa|4 years ago|reply
There's homing h/j key for it, though I rarely need it.
[+] aasasd|4 years ago|reply
I hoped that someone finally got the right idea, and those djinn-pads are touch-pads. Alas, no such luck.
[+] stunt|4 years ago|reply
I tried building custom keyboards! It was a lot of fun waiting for parts, assembling and customizing them. And if nothing it was the best soldering training ever cos I got really good at soldering in the end.
[+] bbkane|4 years ago|reply
I guess I'm a bit odd, but what I really want is a split version of Apples Magic Keyboard- extremely thin/flat and small, but with enough keys that I don't have to learn layers to type. I'm using a Kinesis Freestyle2 keyboard now, and, while I appreciate how comfy it is, it takes up a good portion of my desk.
[+] whynolayers|4 years ago|reply
You're already using 'layers' to type uppercase, symbols, accented characters, etc. A keyboard would easily double (or more) the numbers of keys to not have 'layers'.
[+] __mharrison__|4 years ago|reply
I realize that the positioning of the ErgoDox thumb clusters aren't for everyone (I only use the two big keys), but I use the thumb keys a lot. In combination with QMK, my thumbs work a lot harder, but I feel it is much more efficient. This design lacks the "thumb power".
[+] donio|4 years ago|reply
Same for me, the ability to offload the most frequently used keys (space, return, backspace, shift, ctrl/meta/super) from the pinkies to the thumbs is probably the greatest benefit of a good split design (Datahand in my case)
[+] alanfranz|4 years ago|reply
I would love something like the old SK-6000 keyboard ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/264750292234 ), maybe without the numpad, but with all other keys, and possibly mechanical (silent) switches.

It seems that nowadays we get either extremely peculiar split keyboards (without F-Keys, PgUp/PgDown) or something just doesn't feel right (PgUp/PgDown keys aligned vertically instead of horizontally, cursor keys with strange alignments and positioning, et cetera). I think that a "normal keyboard just with a certain angle in the middle" would be simple enough and great.

[+] nine_k|4 years ago|reply
I very much like the idea of the joysticks under thumbs. Modifiers don't need to be keys! Space and finger motions are instantly saved; such a great idea! But likely it requires certain patches in the QMK code. This also obviously eliminates the need for mouse, very useful.

I also like the straight columns and intensive staggering, they help (me) type without looking more easily.

What I find extraneous is all these screens and LEDs. I see that for many such keyboards are for showing off; for me they are a tool, and the very point of touch typing is that I don't need to keep the keys in my field of view!

[+] hsbauauvhabzb|4 years ago|reply
I use LEDs as state indicators similar to caps/scroll/num lock, but in my case it’s obvious what state I’m in without even looking, due to the brightness (enough I can see from the corner of my eyes). State is more important due to the use of vim-like layers
[+] __mharrison__|4 years ago|reply
I would be interested in hearing feedback on using the thumb knobs as joysticks. What are people using them for?
[+] gfody|4 years ago|reply
I wonder can you use the the two knobs to control the mouse etch-a-sketch style?
[+] LeoPanthera|4 years ago|reply
Left knob for bearing, right knob for speed.
[+] frio|4 years ago|reply
I'm RSI-adjacent (never diagnosed, but flat keyboards give me pangs after a while) and have a ~6 year old home-made Ergodox currently, and really like it (though I have to admit, there's a definite cognitive overhead switching between QWERTY on my laptop, productivity-focussed split, and gaming-focussed split that gets annoying sometimes). At the time I built it, it seemed like a cheaper way of checking if one of these things would help than grabbing a Kinesis.

I've been kind of thinking about upgrading for a while though, and there's an accretion of new features building up that are starting to make the idea seem a little less wasteful. The new generation designs like this that have an integrated screen for extra data _really_ appeal (my Ergodox is pre-RGB/backlighting, so you can't tell the keyboard's state at a glance); that, combined with hot-swappable key sockets, novel input mechanisms (rotary encoders for volume/Lightroom control!), the sort of tenting support the ZSA Moonlander supports etc. are all pretty exciting.

I've never quite managed to convince myself to spend time on keyboards as a hobby, but I'm so grateful others love it.

[+] tzarc|4 years ago|reply
Oh hey, that's me!
[+] mgarfias|4 years ago|reply
How would I get the boards?
[+] folkrav|4 years ago|reply
Been using a Keebio Iris[0] (here's my build[1]) for the last 3 years and so, which I've initially built in an attempt to mitigate some nerve pressure issues in the elbow (I have ulnar nerve hypermobility in both arms on top of relatively broad shoulders, so common typing position gets really uncomfortable/painful over time). Long story short, combined with some hand/shoulder strengthening exercises and proper posture, it definitely helps alleviate the pressure.

  [0] https://keeb.io/collections/iris-split-ergonomic-keyboard - looks like the pcb design got a couple of updates since I've built mine, like onboard controller and usb-c, etc.  
  [1] https://imgur.com/a/k72o4p3
[+] josalhor|4 years ago|reply
I recently invested on a YMDK 75% split keyboard.

After many hours of research on switch type (because I don't like noise or high pressure on keys) and some modding to the height lower it turned out pretty good.

Would recommend to anyone whose livelihood depends on what they type on the computer.

[+] iamevn|4 years ago|reply
I'm very happy with the matias ergopro and am finishing up a design for a slightly larger than full size split keyboard using matias (alps style) switches. I'm adding an extra inner column on the left and right sides with duplicated keys from the other side. I got used to using either hand for those central keys on a normal keyboard so being able to use them that way on a split seems like a good thing to me. Since it's bigger, it'll be a bit pricey to build so I'm tempted to throw together one of those tiny keyboards with the reversible PCBs just for fun.
[+] codetrotter|4 years ago|reply
I have the ErgoDox EZ Shine split keyboard and use it with a custom Dvorak layout that I created for it inspired by the layout of the keyboard I used to use before it, the TypeMatrix 2030 USB.

My custom Dvorak layout for the ErgoDox EZ Shine: https://github.com/ctsrc/ergodox-ez-shine-dvorak