Different cultures have different unwritten behaviours on roads.
In the mountains of Italy, drivers give a short honk before entering a turn on a serpentine road, which usually can't be seen around. If there is no responding honk, they will take the full width of the road (making the very tight turn easier and faster). Tourist drivers have to pick up on this :)
In much of Europe oncoming cars flash their lights to warn others about dangers and (especially) speed traps or police checks, so they can slow down in time.
Here in Lithuania, flashing your warning lights (the four orange ones on the corners of the car) means thanks, for example if you let someone merge from one of the very short onramps. I've never seen this in Germany, where onramps are however much longer.
And amongst truck drivers it's pretty wide-spread to blink right to tell a following car you think it's safe for them to overtake you and blink left when you think it no longer is. At least on long roads where there are no obvious right turns. I flash them a grateful hand sign when passing their mirror.
I can confirm all of it for Germany as well (except the Italian serpentine road synchronization hack).
I flash lights for oncoming traffics because of danger or police checks.
I flash warning lights (or raise right hand) for thank you. Others do as well (especially buses, when you let them out of the bus stop, since in Germany they don't have the right of passage leaving a bus stop)
I learned that truck drivers (and buses) flash left, when it's not safe to overtake.
There are also some official rules regarding bus flashing at a bus stop (right, warning). But most of drivers ignore that.
> In the mountains of Italy, drivers give a short honk before entering a turn on a serpentine road, which usually can't be seen around. If there is no responding honk, they will take the full width of the road (making the very tight turn easier and faster).
I do this in the UK for the narrow lanes where there is only room enough for one car, because my Grandad used to do it, and because it makes a lot of sense... although the "take up the whole road" part is kind of unavoidable, which is the whole reason to beep ur horn. There are just a huge number of country lanes here that are so narrow only one small vehicle will fit, and when you get to a blind corner you have to go slow enough to be able to quickly stop... a couple taps of the horn help to warn other drivers that something is coming regardless of your actions, and just reduce the chances of a collision.
To be fair I rarely hear other drivers do this any more, so it might be more of an old fashioned thing.
A friend from Syria once told me that in their country flashing warning lights means "f* you", and when he saw it for the first time when going abroad, he was really angry when someone thanked him. Like "I've just let him merge and that is how he acts to me?!"
But I personally haven't heard of any other cases when this isn't considered a thank you gesture
In Israel, flashing the warning lights or hazard lights or whatever they're called when driving, means "hey car behind me, you're on high beams and blinding me, please stop". Since moving to the US I haven't found an effective way to signal people about this, they certainly don't understand this signal.
Flashing high beams quickly is either a warning about police ahead, or "turn on your damn lights" (there is also a hand gesture for this, spreading and closing your fingers towards them to illustrate a light beam). If someone is blinding you coming in front of you, you just turn on high beams and blind them back.
I've seen people flashing their hazards to say thank you in London, but never in Scotland. I suppose non-verbal, everyday communication like this can still remain very localised since the usual vectors for cultural transmission (social media, television, film, etc.) don't include such mundane things.
> Here in Lithuania, flashing your warning lights (the four orange ones on the corners of the car) means thanks, for example if you let someone merge from one of the very short onramps. I've never seen this in Germany, where onramps are however much longer.
In Sweden it's common to do this by using your blinkers. You blink once in each direction. So first left, then right. Or the other way around.
>> In the mountains of Italy, drivers give a short honk before entering a turn on a serpentine road
At night i was on an airport transfer bus heading down the Amalfi coast and the driver was flashing his headlights before barrelling into a hairpin turn giving no room for oncoming traffic. I stopped stamping on the imaginary brake pedal quite so hard when i realised this signal must mean I’m coming through which is the opposite from here in the UK where it means I’m giving way to you.
>In the mountains of Italy, drivers give a short honk before entering a turn on a serpentine road, which usually can't be seen around. If there is no responding honk, they will take the full width of the road (making the very tight turn easier and faster). Tourist drivers have to pick up on this :)
It seems like it should be illegal (and also partly suicidal) to go into the opposing lane in a situation where you cannot see if there is an approaching car. You're relying on someone in an opposing lane hearing and understanding your horn, for relatively little gain, and potentially fatal results.
Any situation where you can do everything 'perfectly' and you have a significant chance of dying or killing someone because someone else doesn't notice is a good situation to avoid.
If you hit someone's car under these circumstances it would be criminally negligent in my opinion.
Even on racetracks indicators and high-beams are used in their own way (that is: if the race car is equipped with such lights).
Hazard lights (both indicators): Used in yellow zone, both to confirm to the marshals that the driver has seen the yellow flag. For drivers behind it is extra indication that yellow zone is ahead.
Indicate to the right: Acknowledge the faster driver behind you, indicating it is safe to pass. Also to acknowledge to marshal that the blue flag was observed.
Indicate to the left: Indicate to car in front that you are faster, please let me pass (same as blue flag by marshal). Obviously not used in competitive racing, but very useful recreational for track driving.
High-beams are sometimes flashed to thank/acknowledge marshal on a flag signal.
In France they seem to use the horn, frantic (and frankly very rude) hand gestures and occasionally screeching tires to let you know that you did NOT in fact have the right of way entering the traffic circle.
I always hear/read about the speed trap warning. In motorcycle circles, IIRC tapping the top of your helmet is that same warning. I haven't ever actually seen either of those in practice, though.
Motorcyclists do usually wave at each other, or sometimes point at the road with a foot or two fingers, just as a greeting.
The one I do see (in the USA anyway) is flashing your high beams to let a semi truck know they have space to merge in front of you (eg after passing). They usually tap their brake lights a couple times to signal thanks after merging.
Friend from Canada (who cycled from Vilnius to Warsaw) would give short honks to cyclists as some sort of appreciation or something. I thought it’s kinda annoying for cyclists!
Here in NZ will honk (or even call police) if you drive middle of the road - visibility behind corners isn’t great and tourists often confuse where they should drive. Whereas it’s fairly common to drive in the middle in Lithuania - sometimes it has better road surface.
I've seen this sort of comment many times, implying that indicators, flashing lights, use of the horn is unique to certain countries or regions. Yet every time, there's replies saying "hey I'm from <region not mentioned> and we also do this".
It seems to me people haven't realised the behaviour displayed in their part of the world isn't as unique or quaint as they think it is!
I'm in Zanzibar, TZ at the moment. Honking is also used when overtaking or in general to make others aware of your presence on the road (especially for pedestrians and cyclists). The interesting part though is with indicators. They use the right indicator (driving in on the left) to signal incoming cars to the vehicles behind you, meaning it is unsafe to overtake.
When riding in a car with a long trailer (glider transport trailer) from Poland to Spain and back in ~2002, we quickly found out that LTV truckers would use indicators to point out when we gained enough distance when overtaking to safely merge back into the lane.
Flashing warning lights for thanks is also common in Poland.
>In much of Europe oncoming cars flash their lights to warn others about dangers and (especially) speed traps or police checks, so they can slow down in time.
>Here in Lithuania, flashing your warning lights (the four orange ones on the corners of the car) means thanks,
Ok, time to throw in the explanation I grew up with. I always thought it was definitive, but turns out its not. Unfortunately I have already passed on this urban legend :P.
On foggy roads in north India, it is difficult to see vehicles on the road. So lights were used to indicate the status of big vehicles like trucks. Two lit bulbs on left and right corners (illuminating Horn Please) meant honk to get a pass. And to indicate you can overtake, the driver could light one bulb in the middle (illuminating a OK) to indicate its ok to take over. Eventually this system was scrapped but the tradition to paint "Horn OK please" remained.
(my god the theory is falling apart in my own head as I retell it).
A reminder that pretty much no lorry driver in india knows English. Vehicles here have inane phrases like this and it’s for the most part almost protocol to paint them when you get a vehicle of that class. The guy who paints Lorry backs with the company name probably asks “you want the horn ok please phrase right” and the drivers probably like yeah whatever.
Not like the drivers here expect courtesy from anyone around them. If anything they expect (and return in kind) douchebaggery. It’s like playing gta. Of course you expect every passerby to steal your car and you act accordingly.
Similarly auto rickshaws all over Tamil Nadu used to ubiquitously have the phrase “the age for a woman to get married is 21”. Similar bullshit reason (though in this case the govt might have mandated it at some point, memory unclear). Thankfully it’s disappeared nowadays.
I was visiting a relative in Patna and it's like everybody just honks for the sake on honking. I mean I thought delhi was bad, but this place just takes honking to a whole new level. It's so bad that I had to go inside a random shop to wait for my Ola as the sound levels were literally unbearable.
The only place where I haven't seen so much honking is Goa. Maybe the traffic is less or people are different but that's like the only place where the roads are somewhat quiet.
I've always observed that in India honking the horn is not just about overtaking - it's an acoustic indicator of your position, making it possible for those in front of you to plot your presence without taking their eyes off the road in front (which usually requires their absolute and undivied attention). Additionally, as the article points out, many vehicles don't possess funtional rear-view mirrors, and are therefore dependent on acoustic signals to know what's going on around them.
Had the same experience, Goa was the only oasis of sanity we found. Also they didn't seem to create these toxic plastic fires that were otherwise ubiquitous.
As someone who has grown up (and learnt to drive) in England - I had a moment of sudden realisation in India.
For me, the horn is a warning sign - "get out of my way" or "watch out!" - only to be used in emergencies.
In India, the horn means "I'm over here", to be used whenever you're near another vehicle. Which fits with the statements on the back of the lorries perfectly.
My father told me the reason some years ago. As a rough sketch, it was because decades ago many highways used to be 'single lane', so if you had a truck in front of you, you needed to overtake it as you wouldn't want to be stuck tailing it the entire length of the road.
He said that above the "OK" there used to be a bulb. So if someone wanted to overtake the truck, they were required to sound their vehicle's horn to signal their intent/desire to do so, that's what the "Horn Please" was for. If all was clear, the truck driver used to turn on the bulb to tell that it was "OK" to do so.
Apparently, with time, the bulb went into oblivion (perhaps due to becoming redundant because of the widening of the roads) but the words remain.
> Trucks, in particular, are often not even equipped with side mirrors in the first place.
Maybe mandating side mirrors (or rather enforcing this mandate - I can't quite believe that side mirrors are optional for roadworthiness, even in India) would be a better point to start with, rather than outlawing the phrase "Horn OK Please"?
No where in the article do they even try to ask the people who own or paint these words on the vehicles? Speculation throughout and not a shred of input from any of the people actually involved (Drivers, Lettering painters, police..).
Conclusion: none! We don't know and didn't ask either.
I am pretty sure "OK" is a separate phrase - not sure about origins, could be a Quality Check OK by manufacturer or a transport authority certifying it is fit for use maybe.
"Horn Please" / "Sound Horn" is the other phrase with a clear purpose and meaning.
They just got mixed in due to usage. I saw/see many examples where OK is painted in a distinct font from other words.
Whenever I visit a large city, the sound of car horns is what takes the most getting used to. It is deeply unpleasant, and happens so often it isn't even useful. I'm convinced these people are using their horns as an expression of emotion, rather than an attempt to communicate with a specific car. For someone from the suburbs it's a very alien and disturbing experience.
Anyone with local insight on how safe/unsafe the roads are and if things like side mirrors would help?
I once drove around Sicily for a few days and the main city area roads were constant traffic jams, many more car lanes than actual road lanes (faded or non-existent lane markings), and people switching lanes and turning without any notice/indicators. For all the chaos it kinda worked and people just went very slowly moving lanes, cutting across intersections, etc. Seemed like the lack of safety made everyone more cautious (although I haven’t bothered looking at road accident stats). Though I was glad to be done with it at the end of my trip!
In Rajasthan I saw "Horn Please" everywhere, usually without "OK". And that's the title of a book about the colourful trucks of the subcontinent: http://www.hornpleaseindia.com/
It's only three examples (but Google will provide way more: https://live.staticflickr.com/7392/16171222650_b5b5e0ffc6_b....) , but in two of those the font of "ok" and "horn please" is different, suggesting that "horn ok please" is not the correct/intended interpretation, and that the Indian designers that started this trend were not big fan of Gestalt rules.
Yeah, the article seems to painfully ignore it, but the common theme in all its theories (and the way it's painted in its photos) seems to be that 'OK' should be parsed separately, whatever its meaning.
As a cyclist, the shortest bit of advice I can give to anyone not accustomed to busy Indian roads would be to assume that everyone around you are actively looking to murder you.
At best, you are an ant that they may step on by mistake.
I've been to Trivandrum a couple of times - Trivandrum's roads are less lethal than most in India per-collision, but they make up for it on volume.
Having visited Buenos Aires, with similarly infamous roads, I thought I knew what I was in for. No. I've never been so terrified to ride in "normal traffic" in my life. High speed mayhem with everything millimeters apart and constantly pushing for position aggressively.
I cannot even begin to imagine engaging with those roads as a cyclist.
This was interesting, and I normally love atlas Obscura, but it seems like quite a bit of the article was lifted from this quora question that shows up early in google
To people familiar with standard American and British English, perhaps, but it's written by Indian English speakers for an Indian audience. Perhaps it's not ungrammatical in that language variety?
> It is unclear whether the ubiquitous sign actually contributes to drivers honking their horns more, though the government of Maharashtra certainly seems to think there is a connection.
Whether the signs do or don’t contribute is irrelevant. They are ubiquitous and banning them causes discussion which calls attention to the city’s attempt to reduce the racket.
And I am annoyed that, despite the title, the article does not explain the origin.
My theory has been a little different. IIRC Horn and Please are written on the two sides asking the tailing vehicle to blow the Horn. And the OK comes from the OK word written on the bumper (in the middle) by the manufacturer. This was a requirement as far as back in the 80s (may be even earlier) to stamp the OK (on the lines of OK TESTED) I guess. People got habituated into reading Horn OK Please and the integrated with the culture.
[+] [-] sdfjkl|4 years ago|reply
In the mountains of Italy, drivers give a short honk before entering a turn on a serpentine road, which usually can't be seen around. If there is no responding honk, they will take the full width of the road (making the very tight turn easier and faster). Tourist drivers have to pick up on this :)
In much of Europe oncoming cars flash their lights to warn others about dangers and (especially) speed traps or police checks, so they can slow down in time.
Here in Lithuania, flashing your warning lights (the four orange ones on the corners of the car) means thanks, for example if you let someone merge from one of the very short onramps. I've never seen this in Germany, where onramps are however much longer.
And amongst truck drivers it's pretty wide-spread to blink right to tell a following car you think it's safe for them to overtake you and blink left when you think it no longer is. At least on long roads where there are no obvious right turns. I flash them a grateful hand sign when passing their mirror.
[+] [-] calahad|4 years ago|reply
(Apparently this has been successfully challenged in court as free speech though lol https://www.myimprov.com/flashing-headlights-in-florida-prot... )
[+] [-] hr0m|4 years ago|reply
I flash lights for oncoming traffics because of danger or police checks.
I flash warning lights (or raise right hand) for thank you. Others do as well (especially buses, when you let them out of the bus stop, since in Germany they don't have the right of passage leaving a bus stop)
I learned that truck drivers (and buses) flash left, when it's not safe to overtake.
There are also some official rules regarding bus flashing at a bus stop (right, warning). But most of drivers ignore that.
[+] [-] tomxor|4 years ago|reply
I do this in the UK for the narrow lanes where there is only room enough for one car, because my Grandad used to do it, and because it makes a lot of sense... although the "take up the whole road" part is kind of unavoidable, which is the whole reason to beep ur horn. There are just a huge number of country lanes here that are so narrow only one small vehicle will fit, and when you get to a blind corner you have to go slow enough to be able to quickly stop... a couple taps of the horn help to warn other drivers that something is coming regardless of your actions, and just reduce the chances of a collision.
To be fair I rarely hear other drivers do this any more, so it might be more of an old fashioned thing.
[+] [-] r00f|4 years ago|reply
But I personally haven't heard of any other cases when this isn't considered a thank you gesture
[+] [-] dvirsky|4 years ago|reply
Flashing high beams quickly is either a warning about police ahead, or "turn on your damn lights" (there is also a hand gesture for this, spreading and closing your fingers towards them to illustrate a light beam). If someone is blinding you coming in front of you, you just turn on high beams and blind them back.
[+] [-] rozab|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Xevi|4 years ago|reply
In Sweden it's common to do this by using your blinkers. You blink once in each direction. So first left, then right. Or the other way around.
[+] [-] johannes1234321|4 years ago|reply
Swiss busses even have a special horn playing a piece (three tones) of Rossini's, Wilhelm Tell Opera Overture https://youtu.be/wMWEQdxMhdA
[+] [-] CraigJPerry|4 years ago|reply
At night i was on an airport transfer bus heading down the Amalfi coast and the driver was flashing his headlights before barrelling into a hairpin turn giving no room for oncoming traffic. I stopped stamping on the imaginary brake pedal quite so hard when i realised this signal must mean I’m coming through which is the opposite from here in the UK where it means I’m giving way to you.
[+] [-] LegitShady|4 years ago|reply
It seems like it should be illegal (and also partly suicidal) to go into the opposing lane in a situation where you cannot see if there is an approaching car. You're relying on someone in an opposing lane hearing and understanding your horn, for relatively little gain, and potentially fatal results.
Any situation where you can do everything 'perfectly' and you have a significant chance of dying or killing someone because someone else doesn't notice is a good situation to avoid.
If you hit someone's car under these circumstances it would be criminally negligent in my opinion.
[+] [-] LeonM|4 years ago|reply
Hazard lights (both indicators): Used in yellow zone, both to confirm to the marshals that the driver has seen the yellow flag. For drivers behind it is extra indication that yellow zone is ahead.
Indicate to the right: Acknowledge the faster driver behind you, indicating it is safe to pass. Also to acknowledge to marshal that the blue flag was observed.
Indicate to the left: Indicate to car in front that you are faster, please let me pass (same as blue flag by marshal). Obviously not used in competitive racing, but very useful recreational for track driving.
High-beams are sometimes flashed to thank/acknowledge marshal on a flag signal.
[+] [-] JackFr|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vollmond|4 years ago|reply
Motorcyclists do usually wave at each other, or sometimes point at the road with a foot or two fingers, just as a greeting.
The one I do see (in the USA anyway) is flashing your high beams to let a semi truck know they have space to merge in front of you (eg after passing). They usually tap their brake lights a couple times to signal thanks after merging.
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dzhiurgis|4 years ago|reply
Here in NZ will honk (or even call police) if you drive middle of the road - visibility behind corners isn’t great and tourists often confuse where they should drive. Whereas it’s fairly common to drive in the middle in Lithuania - sometimes it has better road surface.
[+] [-] rubans|4 years ago|reply
It seems to me people haven't realised the behaviour displayed in their part of the world isn't as unique or quaint as they think it is!
[+] [-] keraf|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] silon42|4 years ago|reply
I drive on a twisty road like that often, and I'd collect a cyclist every month if I did that.
[+] [-] p_l|4 years ago|reply
Flashing warning lights for thanks is also common in Poland.
[+] [-] johnflan|4 years ago|reply
Those behaviours are common in Ireland too
[+] [-] newswasboring|4 years ago|reply
On foggy roads in north India, it is difficult to see vehicles on the road. So lights were used to indicate the status of big vehicles like trucks. Two lit bulbs on left and right corners (illuminating Horn Please) meant honk to get a pass. And to indicate you can overtake, the driver could light one bulb in the middle (illuminating a OK) to indicate its ok to take over. Eventually this system was scrapped but the tradition to paint "Horn OK please" remained.
(my god the theory is falling apart in my own head as I retell it).
[+] [-] aitchnyu|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nodelessness|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sva_|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] d13|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ramraj07|4 years ago|reply
Not like the drivers here expect courtesy from anyone around them. If anything they expect (and return in kind) douchebaggery. It’s like playing gta. Of course you expect every passerby to steal your car and you act accordingly.
Similarly auto rickshaws all over Tamil Nadu used to ubiquitously have the phrase “the age for a woman to get married is 21”. Similar bullshit reason (though in this case the govt might have mandated it at some point, memory unclear). Thankfully it’s disappeared nowadays.
[+] [-] ghoomketu|4 years ago|reply
I was visiting a relative in Patna and it's like everybody just honks for the sake on honking. I mean I thought delhi was bad, but this place just takes honking to a whole new level. It's so bad that I had to go inside a random shop to wait for my Ola as the sound levels were literally unbearable.
The only place where I haven't seen so much honking is Goa. Maybe the traffic is less or people are different but that's like the only place where the roads are somewhat quiet.
[+] [-] situationista|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aww_dang|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] carlmr|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] missedthecue|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rahoulb|4 years ago|reply
For me, the horn is a warning sign - "get out of my way" or "watch out!" - only to be used in emergencies.
In India, the horn means "I'm over here", to be used whenever you're near another vehicle. Which fits with the statements on the back of the lorries perfectly.
[+] [-] captn3m0|4 years ago|reply
- A restaurant name in Belgium (https://www.hornokplease.space/)
- An indian TV series (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10055722/)
- A bollywood romcom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_%27Ok%27_Pleassss) (Mentioned in the article)
- A food festival in Delhi (https://hornokpleasefest.com/)
- Multiple restaurants in India (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=horn+ok+please+site%3A...)
A few random books as well.
[+] [-] tectonicfury|4 years ago|reply
He said that above the "OK" there used to be a bulb. So if someone wanted to overtake the truck, they were required to sound their vehicle's horn to signal their intent/desire to do so, that's what the "Horn Please" was for. If all was clear, the truck driver used to turn on the bulb to tell that it was "OK" to do so.
Apparently, with time, the bulb went into oblivion (perhaps due to becoming redundant because of the widening of the roads) but the words remain.
[+] [-] rob74|4 years ago|reply
Maybe mandating side mirrors (or rather enforcing this mandate - I can't quite believe that side mirrors are optional for roadworthiness, even in India) would be a better point to start with, rather than outlawing the phrase "Horn OK Please"?
[+] [-] kelvin0|4 years ago|reply
Conclusion: none! We don't know and didn't ask either.
Really weird article.
[+] [-] albert_e|4 years ago|reply
"Horn Please" / "Sound Horn" is the other phrase with a clear purpose and meaning.
They just got mixed in due to usage. I saw/see many examples where OK is painted in a distinct font from other words.
[+] [-] causi|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yardstick|4 years ago|reply
I once drove around Sicily for a few days and the main city area roads were constant traffic jams, many more car lanes than actual road lanes (faded or non-existent lane markings), and people switching lanes and turning without any notice/indicators. For all the chaos it kinda worked and people just went very slowly moving lanes, cutting across intersections, etc. Seemed like the lack of safety made everyone more cautious (although I haven’t bothered looking at road accident stats). Though I was glad to be done with it at the end of my trip!
[+] [-] jzwinck|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gattilorenz|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] OJFord|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yutijke|4 years ago|reply
At best, you are an ant that they may step on by mistake.
[+] [-] Pxtl|4 years ago|reply
Having visited Buenos Aires, with similarly infamous roads, I thought I knew what I was in for. No. I've never been so terrified to ride in "normal traffic" in my life. High speed mayhem with everything millimeters apart and constantly pushing for position aggressively.
I cannot even begin to imagine engaging with those roads as a cyclist.
[+] [-] dec0dedab0de|4 years ago|reply
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Horn-OK-Please-painted-on-the-b...
[+] [-] TazeTSchnitzel|4 years ago|reply
To people familiar with standard American and British English, perhaps, but it's written by Indian English speakers for an Indian audience. Perhaps it's not ungrammatical in that language variety?
[+] [-] alexwebb2|4 years ago|reply
- Directly behind me? OK, that's fine.
- Passing on the left or right? Horn, please.
[+] [-] gumby|4 years ago|reply
Whether the signs do or don’t contribute is irrelevant. They are ubiquitous and banning them causes discussion which calls attention to the city’s attempt to reduce the racket.
And I am annoyed that, despite the title, the article does not explain the origin.
[+] [-] suvo|4 years ago|reply