top | item 29378590

A $5B hoard of aluminum

229 points| iamdeedubs | 4 years ago |mining.com

86 comments

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wombatmobile|4 years ago

jonathanwallace|4 years ago

And according to https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/40538538, it always has been.

In the referenced book, the author details how the aluminum cartel was dismantled under the threat of WWII needs because of their failure to promptly address the needs of the United States.

openfuture|4 years ago

You are better off assuming everything is.

adolph|4 years ago

the aluminium industry consumed 6% of all global coal-fired electricity in 2019 – more coal-fired electricity than is generated in the whole of Europe – and is actually becoming more reliant on coal at a time when the world is becoming less reliant on coal.

https://ember-climate.org/commentary/2020/10/06/aluminium/

The aluminium sector has a pivotal role to play here. Accounting for 1.1 billion tonnes of CO2 emissions per year, it generates around 2% of global human-caused emissions. Demand for aluminium, an essential material for several key industries including construction, transportation and power transmission, is expected to grow by more than 50% by 2050. As such, emissions must be addressed now.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/the-aluminium-industr...

AlexanderDhoore|4 years ago

"at a time when the world is becoming less reliant on coal"

No, we aren't becoming less reliant on coal. We should be but we aren't. Look at [1]. We actually consume more coal, oil and gas each and every year.

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/energy-mix

AniseAbyss|4 years ago

In Europe the alternative for coal in heavy industry is natural gas and we all know how that's working out right now.

hasmanean|4 years ago

Why don’t they just like Bitcoin with electricity and use the waste heat in the electrolyte melting process?

Using electricity to heat anything is wasteful when it could be used to waste clock cycles on cryptocurrency instead, first.

jaclaz|4 years ago

Only as a side note/curiosity, possibly one of the most valued sets of cutlery Napoleon III owned was an aluminium one:

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/51115/did-napole...

Anyway until the late second half of the 1800's, it was considered as valuable as gold, if not more (article in French):

https://journals.openedition.org/archeosciences/560

selectodude|4 years ago

Until exceptionally abundant electricity and the Hall-Heroult process, a french guy whose name I forgot discovered you could burn bauxite under a vacuum with elemental sodium. Which meant it was like a twenty step process that burned off other really expensive difficult materials to make.

Wild stuff.

slownews45|4 years ago

If people are upset by so called "dumping" - can't they just let China charge more than they would have for this aluminum?

Aluminum has well known fixed costs in smelters, it's one of those products they use as an example where it may make economic sense to keep a smelter going (even if incurring losses / ) because the cost of shutdown.

Ie, a potline may take up to a week just to "turn off" and a huge amount of effort - think a month of full time work + weeks of troubleshooting as annode effect issues, alumina concentration and other bits settle down. Don't you basically have to recondition (fully, replace all anodes, dig out the crust) the pots, and even then you may be taking a bit hit on pot life with the cool down / reheat cycle?

I know the US has "anti dumping" rules regarding sugar as well - which I've been told contributes to a fair bit of corn syrup use.

I'm not that hung-up on the US blocking imports of cheap materials (if that's what the US wants to do), but how does the US get some third party country to grab this quantity of metal? Ie, China could sell to other countries that are not as concerned about dumping. For example, why would a poor country without a local smelter even care about "dumping" - it would seem the cheap prices would be a subsidy in effect.

adventured|4 years ago

> Ie, China could sell to other countries that are not as concerned about dumping. ... For example, why would a poor country without a local smelter even care about "dumping" - it would seem the cheap prices would be a subsidy in effect.

Because you can either be part of the group of powerful nations that rules the planet (including through various global and regional trade arrangements, international organizations, military power, sanctions, banking/finance and so on), or you can be on the outs with them and they may choose to brutalize you at some point in that case.

The US, as one example, has a lot of levers. If you decide to try to operate outside of its preferences, it can trivially wreck you if you're a small nation. China for its part increasingly swings a big influence hammer, which is why so many nations are very afraid to even offend them. If you're a stray midling country out there, you generally don't get to just do whatever you want to, even if you're not signed on to various limiting agreements around eg dumping. The more powerful nations have specific interests, a specific way they think the world should be, and they have no qualms about being randomly hypocritical (at your expense).

Even most larger nations have to be quite careful. The West is growing quite tired of Erdogan for example and they will further crash Turkey's economy (further amplify the damage Erdogan is already doing) if they think it'll help get rid of him. Turkey can rather easily be smashed at this juncture, potentially resulting in civil war, rolling instability for years or decades, quasi Syriaification.

Physkal|4 years ago

Why would the aluminum stock not be useful after 10 years, oxidation?

londons_explore|4 years ago

It might be in specific forms ready to be processed - eg. blocks of specific dimensions or weights.

After 10 years outside, it's probably covered in dust and grime, and gotten an oxide layer. It probably isn't immediately sellable to a car factory...

But it could be reprocessed very inexpensively and become sellable. The loss of value would probably be well under 1%.

People saying "it's so old, it's basically scrap" either don't know what they're talking about, or they're deliberately deceiving - and being market traders, I suspect the latter in the hopes of pushing market prices higher.

goldenkey|4 years ago

Aluminum is very oxidation resistant once the initial thin oxide layer forms. I doubt that is the issue.

I would guess the reason is similar and would be weathering/erosion due to being outside and pelted with sand/rain/etc.

ZiiS|4 years ago

Aluminum "scrap" is still very useful and valuable.

baybal2|4 years ago

The industry around the world is running out of aluminium. Aluminium mills are closing all around the globe, except for China.

Why? No magnesium. And China don't let out its magnesium.

bell-cot|4 years ago

Hmm. Magnesium is anything but scarce -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium#Occurrence

OTOH, it's not used in huge quantities (vs. oil, coal, iron, etc.) - so it seem plausible that China could kinda corner the market. At a reasonable cost (for them). Especially if they're the ~only country bothering to run a strategy...

raldi|4 years ago

What’s the connection between the two metals?

c_o_n_v_e_x|4 years ago

There's an ongoing theme with certain non-rare industrial materials like Aluminum/Aluminium, magnesium, and not-so-rare "rare" earths elements.

The materials are abundant in nature, however it's the ability or willingness to process those materials in country which is rare. For example, rare earths are dirty to process so developed countries have outsourced their pollution to China.

tokai|4 years ago

So the 'Buying spree' graph is apparently showing a surge of import. But it really doesn't show anything like that. Or am I just misunderstanding something?

gshubert17|4 years ago

The chart legend says it represents the total value of exports to Vietnam from its trading partners, equivalent to Vietnam's imports.

In 2015 and 2016 Vietnam's imports of aluminum were much larger than previous years and later years. The excess value over $4B (the level of subsequent years' imports) totals over $6B. I took 2015-16 to represent the surge of imports.

The price of Al seems to have been around 80 cents a pound at the end of 2016, http://m.kitco.com/getChartPage?symbol=al&width=438&height=2... (then select 5 years). At $1,600 a ton, that's nearly 4 million tons.

This more than covers the 1.8 million tons in the GVA stockpile.

munificent|4 years ago

What form is the aluminum in these stockpiles? Bars? Giant cubes? Boullion? I have no idea how unprocessed aluminum is kept around.

robocat|4 years ago

Likely to be either billets or sheet ingots.

Billets: https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=%22aluminium+billets%22&tb... An example of dimensions: “Most of the produced billets by the South Aluminum Industries Complex are produced in the form of cylinders with a diameter of 280 (11 inches) and a length of 7,500 mm” and some details of their manufacturing process here: https://en.salcocompany.com/aluminum-billet/ Billets of various diameters are used in aluminium extrusion machines: https://www.aec.org/page/aluminum-extrusion-process-basics

Ingots are rolled to produce sheet, which I think is the majority usage by weight of Al: https://www.metalex.co.uk/expert-aluminium-plate-suppliers-e... “The rolling process kicks off with massive, pre-heated metal sheet ingots weighing as much as 20 tons. The ingots tend to be around six feet wide, twenty feet long and over two feet thick.”

zozbot234|4 years ago

Beer and soda cans, duh. Just dig in a random landfill and you'll find the stockpiles right there.

moffkalast|4 years ago

This is the material supply equivalent of a crypto coin that has 50% of its market cap in one wallet.

shmerl|4 years ago

Is aluminum running out? Why is there a deficit? The article doesn't explain that.

mleonhard|4 years ago

The article even has a graph that shows that stockpiles are very high. The doom seems to come entirely from projections due to China reducing production. The article doesn't explain why other countries cannot step up production to meet demand.

The article's quality is poor. It wasn't worth my time to read.