I really admire how much Notch seems to understand opposing viewpoints that most people would simply make inflammatory posts about. His diplomacy here, as well as with Bethesda, has been stellar: Not "Steam is a DRM-ridden mess that I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole, bwa ha ha!", but instead, "I understand why they'd want to control their platform." Not "Bethesda are an Orwellian corporate giant trying to crush the little guy, bwa ha ha!", but instead, "This is probably just lawyers being lawyers." Never a bridge burned. What respect and maturity! Hats off to you, Notch. I'm proud to be a part of the same community of developers as you.
"His diplomacy here, as well as with Bethesda, has been stellar"
I don't think his diplomacy regarding Bethesda has been all that great. Openly mocking their claims probably hasn't earned him any goodwill. The quiz was pretty bad, especially the insult at the end. The tweets and encouragement of people ironically getting the two products confused also hurts his case.
He has worked hard to torch the bridges between Mojang and the open-source communities surrounding Minecraft. He doesn't like people hacking his code, or creating tools which interoperate with his releases. You might have noticed that some mods have been pulled into the main Minecraft tree; the person doing that pulling is always jeb, another Mojang employee. Notch himself isn't very happy about it.
Projects like Bravo and Bukkit don't have any official endorsement or acknowledgement. Our channels of communication keep getting narrower and narrower. It's to the point where I've personally given up on actually talking to Mojang at all.
This is how the battle for openness is won. Not by endless online argument, but by building stuff. Stuff that, by virtue of its openness and flexibility, is too awesome to be needlessly and arbitrarily constrained.
I know many people on HN are rooting for walled gardens to fail (App Store) and for openness to triumph. Do these same people willingly use Steam and think it's great? Isn't Steam's delivery platform for games and the App Store's delivery platform for iOS apps pretty much the same concept? If someone is against the App Store on principle, shouldn't they also be against Steam and not use it?
Steam is a content delivery system. It does not prevent me from adminning my own computer or 'sideloading' other programs. It doesn't tell me that I don't need -foo-, only to tell me that I do need -foo- once it's implemented there. It doesn't force me to use certain hardware. Steam doesn't even dictate what major consumer OS I should use. Steam is a content delivery system, and apart from license control for the content that I purchase through it (and only that), Steam does not mandate my user experience to behave in any particular way.
There isn't much of a wall around the Steam garden.
I don't know how much is "openness" and how much is "good PR".* Every other week you have another post on HN about how Apple's booted something from the app store with no posted reason; I have yet to hear a story about a game being booted from Steam.
*I'm fully aware that there are a lot of people who say that yes, they want it to be open, but I'd be curious in seeing how much zealous anti-app-store sentiment there would be if Apple was more consistent with their policies and verbose about why one app or another was rejected.
Let's say I have an iOS device and wish to install a non-App Store app using it. Setting aside jailbreaking for the moment, what is the barrier to doing so? $500 or so for a new Android phone + all the time spent looking for replacements etc. The iOS platform is bundled with the App Store and there isn't much you can do about it.
Now let's say I have a Windows or Mac PC and I'd like to install a non-Steam game on it. What is the barrier to doing so? Pretty much zero, since there are a ton of other digital and retail options. Steam isn't the only way of downloading PC games, so there's plenty you can do about it.
Sounds like good reasons, to me. They're a company with on-the-edge games and they can't afford to be held back.
I'm actually quite surprised that Valve has -any- say in what they do on their own website, or what they implement in the game. I could understand having to implement certain features (like not crashing with the Steam overlay) but to prevent features, marketing, non-game sales, or anything else that doesn't directly affect Valve?
You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Apple and XBLA have similar restrictions about interaction outside of their walled gardens. There are good reasons for this: Preventing fraud (they trust their credit card processing much more than some random app developer), filtering objectionable content for those under 18, ensuring a certain minimum standard of quality, etc.
Also sorry, I accidentally downvoted you when I meant to upvote you. (Can someone please move those arrows farther apart?)
I can understand Notch's position here, because really, the only thing Steam can provide Majong with is... eyeballs and distribution? Some sort of community? I don't know, but I don't think Minecraft needs any help with those.
Nit-pick: it's "Mojang", not "Majong". The latter is almost a classical board game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahjong), the former is most probably the Swedish word "mojäng" but with our exotic dots removed for a change. "Mojäng", btw, means roughly "gizmo", or "contraption".
Steam is merely a new distribution system for a platform Notch has already shipped on while the XBOX 360 is a totally new platform with its own required distribution system.
They have an alternative to using Steam on PCs - they can release their own binaries, or source. They don't really have such an alternative on the XBox.
Is there some crevice here that can be made into a startup? A digital distribution platform for indie game devs who want more freedom with what they are selling?
It's not really a platform, but I think that's close to what the company formed around the Humble Indie Bundle is doing. I think all of their releases have been DRM free and without any other strings attached, but I actually have no idea what the terms are like for the individual game dev companies. So I think the answer is probably "yes".
I personally added Minecraft in my steam's library so I can launch it from steam and people can see when I'm playing Minecraft. The only shortcoming is, if you are not on your main computer you have to download the game from minecraft.net and not steam. Is it really a huge hassle?
I really hope Notch comes up with something more interesting than capes for the Minecraft market. I could see something like a robust world generator being extremely interesting, but premium hats and capes has to be one of the stupidest concepts in the history of gaming.
I don't like DLC's either, but I guess I just don't like any games enough to care. What I'm trying to say is that I'd like minecraft to stay in it's current innocent state. Perhaps if it grows like World of Warcraft did it will make sense, but it's a tough sell for me now. The simplicity is what makes it so charming.
premium hats and capes has to be one of the stupidest concepts in the history of gaming.
Apparently you are unaware of the runaway success of the Mann Co Store in TF2, which has done so well that TF2 is now Free-to-Play. Hats are among the variety of items that are sold on the Mann Co Store.
mcantor|14 years ago
bena|14 years ago
I don't think his diplomacy regarding Bethesda has been all that great. Openly mocking their claims probably hasn't earned him any goodwill. The quiz was pretty bad, especially the insult at the end. The tweets and encouragement of people ironically getting the two products confused also hurts his case.
MostAwesomeDude|14 years ago
Projects like Bravo and Bukkit don't have any official endorsement or acknowledgement. Our channels of communication keep getting narrower and narrower. It's to the point where I've personally given up on actually talking to Mojang at all.
streptomycin|14 years ago
> I'm not very happy with the draconian nature of (L)GPL
georgemcbay|14 years ago
Notch: Steam is too closed for Minecraft [2]
Minecraft is coming to Xbox 360 [3]
Head Asplode!
[1] http://www.vg247.com/2011/08/25/valve-ms-needs-to-be-comfort...
[2] http://notch.tumblr.com/post/9550850116/why-no-steam-notch
[3] http://www.ifc.com/news/2011/06/e3-2011-minecraft-kinect-xbo...
sid0|14 years ago
daniel_reetz|14 years ago
Beats the shit out of dogma.
Good on ya, Notch.
streptomycin|14 years ago
flyosity|14 years ago
I know many people on HN are rooting for walled gardens to fail (App Store) and for openness to triumph. Do these same people willingly use Steam and think it's great? Isn't Steam's delivery platform for games and the App Store's delivery platform for iOS apps pretty much the same concept? If someone is against the App Store on principle, shouldn't they also be against Steam and not use it?
vacri|14 years ago
There isn't much of a wall around the Steam garden.
skymt|14 years ago
wmf|14 years ago
pseudonym|14 years ago
*I'm fully aware that there are a lot of people who say that yes, they want it to be open, but I'd be curious in seeing how much zealous anti-app-store sentiment there would be if Apple was more consistent with their policies and verbose about why one app or another was rejected.
sid0|14 years ago
Now let's say I have a Windows or Mac PC and I'd like to install a non-Steam game on it. What is the barrier to doing so? Pretty much zero, since there are a ton of other digital and retail options. Steam isn't the only way of downloading PC games, so there's plenty you can do about it.
wccrawford|14 years ago
I'm actually quite surprised that Valve has -any- say in what they do on their own website, or what they implement in the game. I could understand having to implement certain features (like not crashing with the Steam overlay) but to prevent features, marketing, non-game sales, or anything else that doesn't directly affect Valve?
Inconceivable.
AngryParsley|14 years ago
Apple and XBLA have similar restrictions about interaction outside of their walled gardens. There are good reasons for this: Preventing fraud (they trust their credit card processing much more than some random app developer), filtering objectionable content for those under 18, ensuring a certain minimum standard of quality, etc.
Also sorry, I accidentally downvoted you when I meant to upvote you. (Can someone please move those arrows farther apart?)
bryanh|14 years ago
unwind|14 years ago
shoota|14 years ago
doctoboggan|14 years ago
pavel_lishin|14 years ago
niklas_a|14 years ago
jroes|14 years ago
spacemanaki|14 years ago
ido|14 years ago
baby|14 years ago
bstar77|14 years ago
I don't like DLC's either, but I guess I just don't like any games enough to care. What I'm trying to say is that I'd like minecraft to stay in it's current innocent state. Perhaps if it grows like World of Warcraft did it will make sense, but it's a tough sell for me now. The simplicity is what makes it so charming.
fletchowns|14 years ago
Apparently you are unaware of the runaway success of the Mann Co Store in TF2, which has done so well that TF2 is now Free-to-Play. Hats are among the variety of items that are sold on the Mann Co Store.
masklinn|14 years ago
You... have never heard of Team Fortress 2 have you?
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Mann_Co._Store#Headgear
For the last few years, TF2 has been called "a war-themed hat simulator".
sid0|14 years ago
FredBrach|14 years ago