How do we create an incentive model that kills the “parked domain” industry without out pricing people who want to host a legitimate non-commercial personal site?
At first glance I was happy to see the headline because it means it’ll be more expensive for squatters to profit, but then I do sympathize with people using these domains for legitimate non-commercial purposes.
In some countries, if you want to register a domain that's parked, you may appeal to the registrar, and they will take it away from the parker (unless they're legitimately planning to use it).
The conditions of use of the domain state that you will give them _some_ use. "Planning to resell it" it is not considered a valid use. It's a public resource after all.
As an analogy, imagine someone buys all the housing in town, just wanting to re-sell them at a higher price just because they bought them first. It's an obvious case for consumer protection to step in -- otherwise it's just angry mobs. Well, not in some countries.
My thought is to require all domains be sold for the same set price (or at least constant for each TLD). If someone wants to register 1,000 domains let them, but don't allow them to profit off that. If someone breaks the rule, revoke the domain. I'd like to hear reasons why this is a bad idea so I can stop thinking about it every time I get priced out.
> How do we create an incentive model that kills the “parked domain” industry without out pricing people who want to host a legitimate non-commercial personal site?
The simplest solution would be to revoke domains with domain parking pages on them.
If the domain contains an offer to sell the domain, you lose the domain.
That wouldn't solve 100% of the problem, but it would solve 80% of the problem, and that's better than what we have.
At this point, there are many alternative gTLDs that can be used for personal sites, and quite a few are super cheap. Maybe the squatters will catch up and eventually buy them all up but for now there's a decent availability.
Don't Sell domains, instead sell a licence to use that domain.
You cannot sell the licence to somebody else, however if you sell the business/website etc, the domain transfers with it.
Sure, there will be a black market, however with the threat of having your domain licence revoked for breaking the licence agreement, I'm sure this will act as a sufficient deterrent.
Kind of like an OS licence, I can sell the desktop and the licence stays with the hardware (aka website), but I cannot sell my OS licence separately to somebody else.
> without out pricing people who want to host a legitimate non-commercial personal site
Don't buy a .io domain for your personal site - stick to the gTLDs or national TLDs that are run by trusted governments (for reference, I have a .ca TLD because I trust the Canadian government to keep the cost roughly competitive with gTLDs). ccTLDs that have been bought by private companies are essentially privatized in a way that gTLDs and government-run ccTLDs are not.
A related problem is, how do you make sure the domain goes to whoever values it most, as opposed to whoever thought of the name first? In the .com space a lot of good domain names are taken up by people who are not putting it to good use. I am not talking about parked domains, but people who upload an "under construction" gif and then don't update the page for the next 5 years. Maybe domain names should cost more.
there was obviously some other issues with the whole scheme, but i think long-term the massive expansion of TLDs still holds promise to neutralize domain-parking.
the big problem is the scarcity of .com domains along with people's insistence on needing the .com because it is "better".
For .io specifically, there are practically no legitimate non-commercial purposes since almost nobody lives in the British Indian Ocean Territories. Anybody with a .io domain is using it for branding rather than the original purpose of two-letter TLDs.
It's like renting a space on a fashionable commercial street — if rent goes up, there's not much point complaining.
An app, perhaps call it ParkSurfing@Home that does nothing but silently visit parked domains in the background to burn up all their ad revenue without ever clicking on any links, making them completely worthless for advertising purposes.
Wouldn't stop the main issue but it might kick in the rear.
I believe if you kill the parked domain industry it will be harmful to legitimate businesses. Why? Because these domain squatters provide a valuable service - making sure domains are still purchasable by legitimate businesses, even if at a premium. Get rid of them, and people will go out and get various domains they like and might use one day (or redirect to the same spot), with no intention of selling them. More domains, not fewer, will languish.
You have to increase the yearly renewal even more (imo). $120/year is only $10 a month. That is two coffees at Starbucks. If that is too expensive for your legitimate non-commercial purpose, then you probably don't really need a domain. Yeah, some squatters may still try the long game but it starts to get cost prohibitive. The hope would be that if it is expensive enough, the squatters may only hold the most likely TLDs for a specific domain instead of holding all of them at almost no risk. I also think that we can extend this by adding lots and lots of new TLDs. Yeah, the single word domains will get snapped right up but the space becomes ever bigger and harder to corner the market. We could also make a rule that when there is a new TLD, that existing domain holders from the longest lived TLDs get first right of refusal. So if ".cars" is added, Ford would get the first shot at ford.cars
This squatting is the same reason we need a LVT on land to prevent people from squatting on property that could be developed to provide housing.
Ted from Namecheap here. Donuts, who now operates the .io TLD, is only increasing the wholesale price by ~10%. We are still obviously not happy about this since it's always our goal to ensure that domain pricing is as accessible as possible to our customers.
It would appear that Gandi has just chosen to substantially increase their markup as part of this Donuts update. Our pricing will likely only increase a small amount, if at all.
Former Namecheap customer here, thank you for the transparancy. (I only left Namecheap because of the interface, I found that Dynadot was comparable in price and features, but with a nicer GUI. NC seems like a good company otherwise, so I'm always open to the possibility of switching back.)
TBF to Gandhi, IIRC they tend to give favourable prices when you buy domains or deposit funds in bulk. Their opening tier of prices are indeed pricey. Their API is excellent though.
I've always found Namecheap to be price competitive and their customer service is pretty good also. API was always a bit basic (think that had a lot to do with enom implementation)
Which means that Gandi is in fact reducing its relative margin. I'm curious about you opinion on this. In particular, how different are bulk and promotion prices ?
Thanks Ted for the update. I bought my io domain from you guys many years ago when it was $70 or so. Thanks for keeping the price low over the years and for the update.
What about the future increase of .sh? I own one for personal stuff, and it's apparently going to increase from ~40€ to ~73€ which is a bit hard to swallow for personal use.
We left namecheap bc it lived up to its name: we were harassed by defective copyright notices that were copied to namecheap. Instead of forwarding them to us, you sent us an ultimatum that you would drop our DNS. We even had our General Counsel draft you a letter, only to have it repeated. Then we understood that we should just drop the vigilante registrar
Have been 7 years with networksolutions and very happy.
I use Namecheap to host more than 10 domains and some shared hosting, and found customer support to be awesome! Just wanted to mention it. Wondering if you have a special promo plan for guys like me that depend on Namecheap for all their personal and business domains?
Thanks for the transparency and great service! I have all but one of my domains there now (register.com had a deathgrip on until I got fed up with their process and let it lapse. Now it sits available for $370, which I'm not willing to shell out)
Thanks for the great service. I used to have all my registration through Dyn (nee DynDNS.org); when they got bought out by Oracle and started moving everything over I moved to Namecheap. Been perfectly happy since.
It might be helpful to look at this as a percentage change- it looks like they were currently charging $42.18/year as the standard price (1), so this is a 30% price increase.
I used to work for a registrar and had the job of connecting up to the registries, who are the entities that ultimately allocate the domain names. (Yeah great naming choice, no chance of those words being confused with each other.) Registrars talk to registries via EPP, an xml based specification. While there is a spec, the registries variously mess it up in odd and interesting ways, all of which I got to discover as we did these integrations. .io was by far the worst. I remember that you could renew domain names in units of either 1, 2, or 5 years. It was like a developer had done the dynamic programming problem with coins and decided that they would put that in their api.
Considering that .io seems to have been adopted as a signal of "geeky tech cred", I always laugh, and think really it stands for .ironic.
A reminder: just because you don't see any meaningful activities happening on www., don't assume that the owner is domain squatting. Folks make use of their domains in a variety of ways, not just for hosting a website on www.
I like how the .nl tld in the Netherlands is managed by the non-profit SIDN [0]. They are dedicated to an open internet, and they make sure that I can very easily move my domain between (hosting) providers for example (and indeed it was easy to transfer from transip to vimexx for me). They are truly independent. It's how it should be if you ask me. When I read about the .org issues and now .io, I'm happy with my .nl domain, for personal use.
What's the reasoning or history behind why domain prices A) vary between TLDs and B) are allowed to be sold at any price (think huge markups from domain speculating)?
Build an amazing app/platform/service. Host it on whatever tld is cheaper/convenient/some_other_criteria. No one will care what the extension is - especially with current and upcoming consumption models (mobile apps, vr/ar, and so on).
Long time buyer of random domains here. Over the years I've heard reports of people trying to get back their ccTLD because they weren't a citizen of that country and had to fight back-and-forth to reclaim their domain, oftentimes handing ownership of the domain over to a trusted citizen of that country so they can keep their domain.
This is why I don't build important stuff on a ccTLD and go for generic ones like .club .party etc. In my country, I have a single ccTLD that I registered with a passport scan and had to verify my legal name with the registrar, which is good because I don't have to fight to get it back in a rug-pull scenario.
I don't have anything too important on it, just a few links to projects I worked on, and a contact page. The domain price could be hiked at any moment so I don't take the domain too seriously. (I've often thought of just not renewing it, and retiring it).
A while ago I went on a shopping spree buying domains with the name of our project in various TLDs. I did consider .io, but decided to pass at $29 registration price. Now I'm glad I did, because while the money aren't great, I would have had to drop this domain on a principle. You know, to stick it to them!
I think raising the price of TLDs is the only way to stop domain squaters. When even the lowest price for a domain you're squating on is 2k you can sit and pay 50 a year for 50+ years and still come out on top.
Kinda sucks since I have some .io domains and I could only renew them as far as 2025.
Does ICANN already have rules around what prices registrars can charge for domains? It seems like that's the only solution in the current TLD system - ICANN needs to step in and prevent anti-consumer practices like year-over-year price increases that vastly outstrip inflation.
I understand the initial design of ccTLDs but can we just admit it's mostly a failure?
People use them as vanity URLs and there is little to no consistency in how they are used. .io, .ai and .tv are good examples. Then you have .ly where the local warlord can decide to ban your domain for no reasons.
At least .gov, .edu, .com and .org are somewhat consistent.
[+] [-] cj|4 years ago|reply
At first glance I was happy to see the headline because it means it’ll be more expensive for squatters to profit, but then I do sympathize with people using these domains for legitimate non-commercial purposes.
[+] [-] WhyNotHugo|4 years ago|reply
The conditions of use of the domain state that you will give them _some_ use. "Planning to resell it" it is not considered a valid use. It's a public resource after all.
As an analogy, imagine someone buys all the housing in town, just wanting to re-sell them at a higher price just because they bought them first. It's an obvious case for consumer protection to step in -- otherwise it's just angry mobs. Well, not in some countries.
[+] [-] aimor|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AnthonyMouse|4 years ago|reply
The simplest solution would be to revoke domains with domain parking pages on them.
If the domain contains an offer to sell the domain, you lose the domain.
That wouldn't solve 100% of the problem, but it would solve 80% of the problem, and that's better than what we have.
[+] [-] BitwiseFool|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Kinrany|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] athenot|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] InsomniacL|4 years ago|reply
You cannot sell the licence to somebody else, however if you sell the business/website etc, the domain transfers with it.
Sure, there will be a black market, however with the threat of having your domain licence revoked for breaking the licence agreement, I'm sure this will act as a sufficient deterrent.
Kind of like an OS licence, I can sell the desktop and the licence stays with the hardware (aka website), but I cannot sell my OS licence separately to somebody else.
[+] [-] Pxtl|4 years ago|reply
Don't buy a .io domain for your personal site - stick to the gTLDs or national TLDs that are run by trusted governments (for reference, I have a .ca TLD because I trust the Canadian government to keep the cost roughly competitive with gTLDs). ccTLDs that have been bought by private companies are essentially privatized in a way that gTLDs and government-run ccTLDs are not.
[+] [-] ricardo81|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] petilon|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notatoad|4 years ago|reply
the big problem is the scarcity of .com domains along with people's insistence on needing the .com because it is "better".
[+] [-] KingMachiavelli|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pavlov|4 years ago|reply
It's like renting a space on a fashionable commercial street — if rent goes up, there's not much point complaining.
[+] [-] orangepanda|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Covzire|4 years ago|reply
Wouldn't stop the main issue but it might kick in the rear.
[+] [-] sombremesa|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] snarf21|4 years ago|reply
This squatting is the same reason we need a LVT on land to prevent people from squatting on property that could be developed to provide housing.
[+] [-] ted0|4 years ago|reply
It would appear that Gandi has just chosen to substantially increase their markup as part of this Donuts update. Our pricing will likely only increase a small amount, if at all.
[+] [-] MerelyMortal|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ricardo81|4 years ago|reply
I've always found Namecheap to be price competitive and their customer service is pretty good also. API was always a bit basic (think that had a lot to do with enom implementation)
[+] [-] Aissen|4 years ago|reply
And since I wasn't the only one to ask, we now know that the actual bulk price will increase 50%: https://twitter.com/gandibar/status/1466313609475198981
Which means that Gandi is in fact reducing its relative margin. I'm curious about you opinion on this. In particular, how different are bulk and promotion prices ?
[+] [-] fady|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] riekus|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] UseStrict|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] forty|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cft|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dannylandau|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mysterydip|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] acheron|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RKearney|4 years ago|reply
Then why not charge $30 for an .io domain like CloudFlare does instead of $39.98/yr?
[+] [-] beardedman|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cibomahto|4 years ago|reply
(1) https://news.gandi.net/en/2021/10/enjoy-our-io-promotion-bef...
[+] [-] da-bacon|4 years ago|reply
Considering that .io seems to have been adopted as a signal of "geeky tech cred", I always laugh, and think really it stands for .ironic.
[+] [-] josephh|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eclipsetheworld|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] teekert|4 years ago|reply
[0]: https://www.sidn.nl/en/about-sidn/what-we-stand-for
[+] [-] PinguTS|4 years ago|reply
Just about a year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25534498
[+] [-] aimor|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] echelon|4 years ago|reply
.com is obviously the preferred choice, but from my perspective these are the next best picks:
- .io for B2B, SAAS, etc. startups. Occasionally makes sense for B2C (itch.io, etc.) Seems to be falling out of fashion, though.
- .ai is the top choice for ML-based startups. These are really hot now.
- .dev for the occasional SAAS or library. Doesn't make sense B2C.
- .app if you're linking to a mobile app or have a SPA-like functionality. Not super popular, though.
AFAIK, the other TLDs seem like spam/noise. That might just be personal perception and I could be totally wrong. Am I missing anything?
[+] [-] mrv_dev|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vmoore|4 years ago|reply
This is why I don't build important stuff on a ccTLD and go for generic ones like .club .party etc. In my country, I have a single ccTLD that I registered with a passport scan and had to verify my legal name with the registrar, which is good because I don't have to fight to get it back in a rug-pull scenario.
I don't have anything too important on it, just a few links to projects I worked on, and a contact page. The domain price could be hiked at any moment so I don't take the domain too seriously. (I've often thought of just not renewing it, and retiring it).
[+] [-] junon|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Andrew_nenakhov|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] that_guy_iain|4 years ago|reply
Kinda sucks since I have some .io domains and I could only renew them as far as 2025.
[+] [-] flotwig|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TonyBagODonuts|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 908B64B197|4 years ago|reply
People use them as vanity URLs and there is little to no consistency in how they are used. .io, .ai and .tv are good examples. Then you have .ly where the local warlord can decide to ban your domain for no reasons.
At least .gov, .edu, .com and .org are somewhat consistent.
[+] [-] newfonewhodis|4 years ago|reply
What are the best TLDs these days to own that aren't owned by large PE companies just wanting to make a quick buck?
[+] [-] cpach|4 years ago|reply