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I bought those AR cycling glasses that were on HN last month

257 points| TrueGeek | 4 years ago |painandcycling.com | reply

116 comments

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[+] tempestn|4 years ago|reply
I'm blown away by the value in this review from a regular customer. Both in terms of reassuring others of the value of the product, and providing incredibly valuable real-world feedback to the company. I hope OP gets at least a personal thank-you from Engo, if not a free pair of their next iteration to review.
[+] TrueGeek|4 years ago|reply
Hey, thanks for saying so. I've never reviewed a product before so wasn't sure how it'd go. I normally write (on another blog) about software development like the rest of the HN crowd so this was quite different for me.
[+] takk309|4 years ago|reply
It would be amazing if more real reviews of this depth existed, or where easy to find. Any long reviews are usually just crap ad copy, especially for sporting gear. To find the rare honest review is getting harder and harder.
[+] gambiting|4 years ago|reply
Really? Reading this review I wouldn't buy them - the whole gimmick of seeing your stats on the display falls apart if the stats just fail to display for no reason. Yeah cool that they are comfortable and the display isn't distracting, but if the stats sometimes don't show then why would you buy this, unless you like being a QC tester and paying for it.
[+] bredren|4 years ago|reply
Thanks for the review.

This product reminds me of portable mp3 CD players with anti-skip technology.

It was _good_ but it was missing the mark in so many ways and about to be obliterated by iPod.

[+] TrueGeek|4 years ago|reply
This is the analogy I'm going to use from now on when people ask how I liked them.

I think Engo has a chance to win though, at least for a while. They could release v2 next year with improved hardware and a slightly lower price and cyclists would eat it up.

Meanwhile, Apple is going to release their AR glasses but I don't think the initial version will be rugged enough for sports use. And I imagine they'll be MUCH more than $300.

[+] gumby|4 years ago|reply
> How do you take a photo of Augmented Reality?

You shoot through the glasses? At CastAR we shot all our demo through real hardware and I believe Tilt5 is too.

[+] TrueGeek|4 years ago|reply
I tried, I promise! I couldn't get anything. It really is a very small area of the lens where they show the HUD text.
[+] ianbicking|4 years ago|reply
Are there examples up somewhere?

Having seen pictures and then experiencing AR myself (just HoloLens) I feel like honest photoshopping is probably the best we can do. But then that doesn't take into account the actual two-eye experience (maybe even more important in a monocular display), and the effect of movement.

I was doing a little user study recently where I was using HoloLens and the researcher was watching the streaming view. I felt like I had to keep explaining what I was really seeing because the stream felt so inaccurate.

How can you use an image to show the displayed image intersecting or displaying behind a real object? A stereoscopic capture might help, but seeing how things react to head movement is a big part of visual understanding. A short stereoscopic video might give some of that, and yet there is still a difference between watching that video and being the person that moves their head to interrogate the environment.

[+] exabrial|4 years ago|reply
> they aren't waterproof

I sweat an unbelievable amount. This is sorta incredible. But I'm absolutely intrigued despite this. Would definitely need Garmin integration!

[+] smilespray|4 years ago|reply
Just sweat less. Duh. /s
[+] lordnacho|4 years ago|reply
I'm looking for a HUD solution for monitoring. I spend all day with some numbers and status displays on a screen, and I'd like to just be able to wander around and not have to look at my phone all the time.

What are my hardware options? I'm able to write to any SDK they give, but preferably I'd just ping a website as http or websocket and show the stuff on glasses.

[+] jstanley|4 years ago|reply
I also think I'd be interested in generic AR glasses to connect my own application to, but I'm curious why it would be preferable to have the manufacturer's website sitting in the middle of your pipeline?

Personally I would find it preferable if I was talking directly to the glasses and did not have to use any cloud service.

[+] d--b|4 years ago|reply
Wouldn't it be annoying to have numbers displayed in your glasses all the time?

Isn't a watch app enough? With some way of telling it to beep when numbers go beyond some threshold?

[+] cillian64|4 years ago|reply
Perhaps something smartwatch-based would make sense for this. Almost certainly cheaper and easier than AR and still more immediate than pulling out a phone.
[+] agumonkey|4 years ago|reply
More like a HUD than AR. Also a HUD to display HUD's battery life, watts and distance seems not super important. Maybe elevation, coming road geometry, weather, traffic..
[+] m_herrlich|4 years ago|reply
Maybe pedantic, but this seems like just a heads-up display. AR implies the projected image interacts with real objects in your field of vision. I wouldn't call this AR. Nice HUD though.
[+] pengaru|4 years ago|reply
Not pedantic, it's clearly not AR.

At least not in a world marketers haven't completely taken over, where words still have meaning.

[+] naikrovek|4 years ago|reply
what does "augmented" mean to you?

to me, listening to a podcast while driving is probably augmented reality, and that has nothing to do with driving or the route I'm taking.

this does augment the activity intended.

[+] dsign|4 years ago|reply
I guess this is why there isn't hard science fiction anymore: nobody knows anymore if a toy is one thousands years in the future or it was invented yesterday :-( .
[+] ip26|4 years ago|reply
I read my son a fantasy book featuring lots of magic. I was a little surprised at how he didn't bat an eye at any of the magic. Halfway through I realized the fantastical crystal ball the characters were using is not fantastical to my son at all- he makes video calls on a tablet every day.
[+] bpiche|4 years ago|reply
What did they say, cyberpunk never died, it just stopped being fiction?
[+] junon|4 years ago|reply
That's exciting to me, maybe I'm looking at it wrong though.
[+] flyinghamster|4 years ago|reply
One thing I didn't notice: are they usable over prescription eyeglasses? If not, they'd be a non-starter for me.
[+] dev_tty01|4 years ago|reply
Quite a few of the better cycling glasses are available with prescription lenses. I imaging Engo will eventually offer that if they can build enough of a user base.
[+] TrueGeek|4 years ago|reply
I had not considered that. I don’t imagine you’d be able to wear glasses while wearing them, no. But unless you need glasses to ride a bike you won’t need them. Even if you are near sighted you can see the AR display.
[+] cwhittle|4 years ago|reply
Very cool. I can't wait for a more generic data device pairings to these interfaces. I would love them for paragliding, where we have a variometer to track metrics that impact decision making (ascent/descent rate, air/ground speed, altitude, etc) and weight/deck space are a big factor.
[+] joatmon-snoo|4 years ago|reply
Recent H1 here- how responsive are paraglider controls? I feel like for hanggliding I want to see those numbers while I'm airborne, but have no idea if they'd be useful because of how sluggish the response can be.
[+] axegon_|4 years ago|reply
I was never sold on VR. AR on the other hand is something I see huge potential in and I'd happily use on daily basis. That said, the only appealing option I've seen so far were the now defunct Intel, then Focal, then ultimately killed by Google, glasses. Those were something I'd have loved to have and develop on top of. The Engo ones came close but somehow they aren't the type of glasses you could casually wear. I have spent stupid amounts of time over the past 6 months trying to figure out a way to prototype something similar to what Intel was originally planning to do and I'd happily develop and open source something like it. All you need is a high resolution resin 3D printer to make the frame for the glasses and house the components. Small oled screens are pricey and the best option I could find[1] came at around 120$ a pop but that isn't the issue. For the most part an esp32+battery+lcd screen+resin+some other small components would set you back around 200-250€ which is fairly reasonable(most of which I already have). With deep sleep, the battery would last for weeks the way I'd use it. The biggest problem so far are the lenses. In essence you'd need to get your hands on custom prism lens with very accurate focal distance which in my case has proven to be practically impossible to come by. I haven't been able to find anyone that can/would produce small volumes/single units, at least within reasonable distance from where I live, not to mention how expensive that would get. I've been planning to contact a local optomechanical school and see if they can offer a hand but I'm extremely skeptical at this point.

[1] https://lcdscreenmfg.com/product/0-39inch-micro-oled-display...

[+] Jdvaugha|4 years ago|reply
These look awesome! I am just getting into cycling but have yet to invest in a bike computer. Currently use the Apple Watch to track everything. Do you know If you can speed/distance/heart rate from the Apple Watch? If so, it would be an instant purchase.
[+] KennyBlanken|4 years ago|reply
As a very experienced cyclist, thinking back to when I was getting started, my advice is to not worry about something like this.

None of the data the glasses display, except for power, are of any real value to the degree that you need to see them constantly. Heartrate is pretty worthless, and I actually often make a point of NOT looking at distance, like on a longer ride - it can make the ride feel like it's dragging out. Especially with an out-in-front computer mount which are very common these days, glancing down at your bike computer really isn't much of a hassle at all.

Consider spending money on things that will make you more likely to ride, such as clothing for different weather conditions - or if by cycling you mean "for transportation", things that will increase the utility of your bike.

If you want really good mapping and routing, check out the Hammerhead Karoo head units, which run Android. Top-notch routing. The garmins are...OK. Garmin's definitely been far too cozy (little serious competition.)

[+] wiredfool|4 years ago|reply
The watch can do it, but you’ll get better gps on the phone. I’m using Cyclemeter, generally pretty happy with it. It will work with on the watch, or on the phone using the watch for HRM.

It’s not really useful for checking while riding though, it’s more along the lines of a data logger. Might be a bit different with a mount for the phone, but I avoid having visible elevtronics while riding.

[+] davidw|4 years ago|reply
The Wahoo Elemnt is a very nice bike computer. Has all the functionality you need, including nice maps, plus a long battery life.
[+] lormayna|4 years ago|reply
I am a cyclist (7/8k km/year) and I think that this product will become popular only if the price will be low. It's just a fancy tool, but not it does not give you real advantage in terms of better training or improved cycling performances. Maybe it would be better to have an integration to something similar with Veloviewer than display HRM and power information.
[+] tyjaksn|4 years ago|reply
A use case for glasses like these with the heads up display would be while riding a TT bike in the aero position. The bars are not conducive to mounting a bike computer and it is a regular occurrence for it to fall off during a triathlon. With these glasses though you could just put the computer in your shirt pocket or wherever and not have to look down.
[+] bni|4 years ago|reply
It sucks that AR products always inflate expectation in their videos and marketing images and over promise and under deliver.

It's very easy to make an honest video about what user will actually see, but these companies are not interested in that.

Many people believe that the functionality shown in these videos actually exist.

[+] giuliomagnifico|4 years ago|reply
Very interesting! I'm a cyclist too, but I haven't read about the battery, how long it last? And the lenses have good quality/are fast to switch from clear to dark? (by the way the price tagof about 400€ is expensive to what looks like a bit more than "a toy")
[+] TrueGeek|4 years ago|reply
The battery is claimed to be 10 hours, but I didn't test it to that limit. The lenses were really good quality - at least as good as my Tifosi's. Very comfy and stayed in place, which is crucial for AR. They don't actually switch the lenses themselves from clear to dark, it's just the brightness of the text that increases, which is instant. But if you wanted to ride at night, you wouldn't be able to wear them.

I agree they're expensive, especially since they aren't self contained like a typical bike head unit is. I keep comparing them to the Form swimming goggles - which are also AR. I feel those are totally worth it. But the Engo's are just a bit too expensive for what you get.

[+] KennyBlanken|4 years ago|reply
400E/$450 is enough to buy a really nice head unit, or a power meter, or clothing for more weather conditions, etc.

Just really doesn't seem that useful, and reminds me of all the "help cyclists navigate with LED displays" junk. I swear, it's like every industrial designer's right of passage to design some crap accessory to "help" cyclists!

[+] GekkePrutser|4 years ago|reply
I'm surprised it doesn't work with the radar thing, that would be the #1 benefit for me.
[+] TrueGeek|4 years ago|reply
If it was waterproof and showed data from my Varia I would not have returned them. I don't ride on the roads without radar anymore.
[+] ZeroGravitas|4 years ago|reply
I remember when Google Glass was hitting the first peak of the hype cycle, and thinking this would be a great use for them when they got a little better and cheaper. Will think about buying the next generation.
[+] GhettoComputers|4 years ago|reply
OP I see you have LCD to display info, what did you think of the pebble as a bike computer, and have you tried one?
[+] TrueGeek|4 years ago|reply
I never liked the idea of using a watch as a bike computer. If all you want is to record the data for later use it's fine, but then just use whatever you already own - your phone, Apple Watch, etc. If you need to actually see the data while moving the wrist isn't a safe place to be directing your eyesight.
[+] stewbrew|4 years ago|reply
What kind of display did they use for that? Did somebody do a teardown of this thing?