In the big picture, on a very long time horizon, they seemed on a trajectory of irrelevance through the Ballmer era, up until Satya became CEO. (That doesn't even necessarily preclude record profits under Ballmer, but a hide-bound inability to adapt to changing market fundamentals.)
They really changed when Satya Nadella came in, however.
(Not to romanticize. Big tech has a smarmy evil these days. Ballmer just wanted to sell Windows and Office like products to big enterprises. It was less disturbing than donning their sith robes and joining the rest of big tech in trying to posses our incorporeal souls through massive amounts of data and 'nudges'.)
Which is unfair and short sighted, given that Ballmer is the guy who turned it from the windows shop to a company where windows is just one of 3 growing massive sections (plus a few smaller ones), with windows not even being the first one anymore.
>Ballmer just wanted to sell Windows and Office like products to big enterprises.
Yes, but actually, NO. I know it's fashionable to bash Ballmer for being the stereotypical image of the late '90's corporate villain, pulled right out of Office Space[1], but he was also the one who got the ball rolling on what we today know as Azure and saved the Xbox division during the red ring of death and other major issues that plagued the Xbox 360 and cost Microsoft billions.
If he only cared about the enterprise stuff, he would have sold the Xbox division or let it sink at the first sign of losses, but instead he propped it up despite the massive losses. IMHO, he should get some kudos for that as Xbox is currently the only competitor to the Play Station (Nintendo isn't since they do their own thing).
"I am trembling, sat in front of Steve (Ballmer), who I love to death, but he can be an intimidating human being. And Steve said, 'OK, talk me through this,'" Moore added. "I said, 'If we don't do this, this brand is dead.'"
If we hadn't made that decision there and then, and instead tried to fudge over this problem, then the Xbox brand and Xbox One wouldn't exist today."[2]
Ballmer also set the stage for Microsoft's entry into the cloud space in the early days before it was even called Azure, when he saw what AWS was doing.
"Steve Ballmer, the former CEO of Microsoft, initially resisted the idea of embracing the software services paradigm fearing that it would cannibalize Windows and Office business which was contributing to 80% of the revenue. Eventually, Ballmer was not only convinced but pushed Microsoft to become a fully-fledged cloud company through “we’re-all-in” war cry."[3]
Not saying you should like him or anything, but this guys really deserves more credit that he gets for where Microsoft is today (the good and the bad).
As a bonus, for added humor, here he is going crazy on stage about 'DEVELOPERS', like a hamster on cocaine. [4].
I think this is driven by an addiction of big tech to being 'relevant' and engagement is the metric that gives them that sweet hit of relevancy. Heaven forbid they just turn out a useful product for a reasonable profit.
I similarly don't understand why Netflix is included. Well, I do, but I don't understand why "we" didn't change Cramer's acronym to FAAMG long ago, IMO Netflix does not belong with these names neither in it's size, it's role in tech or it's cash flow. Arguably Nvidia would be a more fitting N, but it's cash flow is not in the same league either.
My understanding is that this acronym is partially based on the perceptions employees have about the compensation and perks given out by big tech companies. Historically, Microsoft didn't pay as well.
Nvidia isn't as software-focused as the others. Adobe is popularly known to be a software shitshow internally, whether that's true or not although by the stability and age of their products I'm inclined to believe they are.
Maybe I'm misguided, but what I believe made FAANG a thing is a strong software-focused culture that maintained a level of quality and innovation that usually gets lost at that scale, as was the case with Microsoft and things like IBM.
Totally agree on the Microsoft point, although another poster pointed out that from an investment perspective faang may have referred to high roi companies so maybe microsoft was too well established? Not my are of expertise.
In any case Im going to throw NAMMA out there too because I can say it easier and it leaves room for infinite M companies :)
> wondered why Microsoft was left out of the original 5
Same reason Cornell is typically left out of conversations about Ivy league schools.
It's just not that prestigious. Seeing MS on a resume is not as impressive as the others, and that's also reflected pretty clearly in the comp. It's not nearly as competitive to get a job at MS. The stock performance over the past decade has been pretty meh compared to the others.
How is Cornell Tech's campus doing at Roosevelt Island, NYC?
Microsoft has some really cool stuff going on aside from .NET Core.
Simon Peyton Jones has been there since the late 90s working on Haskell.
Some notable ones for me: F#, F*, Z3 (SMT solver), C# and its ubiquity in products like Unity, WSL2, VS Code, etc...
What's up with Hololens 2? Any uptake? I would like to make a short video of the ultimate PC vs. Mac parody with two armies facing each other with one wearing the stylish MR glasses coming from Apple vs. the more typical-looking HMD Hololens for nostalgia's sake.
I have been in computing for a long time, and all of my jobs have been on PCs with Windows other than the weird Banyan Vines, VMS, Irix, and QNX systems I have worked with over the years. All my graphic artist friends had Apple products. I have had one job where I used Quickbooks on an old Apple Macintosh (1994), but not much else with it. I did put a deposit on a NeXT machine, but that fell through!
I have had a computer since 1977, a Commodore PET 2001 followed by a Vic-20. A Toshiba dual-floppy laptop that probably wouldn't fit under the seat in front in Economy Class seating. My first Apple was a Power Macintosh in 1995/96 (I think the 7200) on which I loaded Minix or some Minix derivative at a later date, a pen-based NCR 3125. Amazingly slim for the time, and I updated the drive in it a year or two later. My first real micro-electronics project. The Newton came out around the same time. The NCR 3125 was a 386 running PenOS that I eventually put Windows with pen support on. Various PCs I built (a RAID 0, Dual-Athlon anyone?) in the early 2000s running Blender3D. I donated $50 to support Ton's efforts to take it open source back then. And so on...Microsoft has always had the tech, but not the marketing or style of Apple. I currently use a Windows 10 gaming laptop, an old Lenovo running Kali, a 2011 iMac (1TB HD! 16 or 32 GB of RAM - I have to look). I just want tools I can use. The only computer/OS I was evangelical about was mh Amiga 1000 and 500!
> The stock performance over the past decade has been pretty meh compared to the others.
MSFT’s ten year total return (1482%) is better than AAPL’s (1256%) or GOOG’s (815%), but not as good as AMZN’s (1629%) or NFLX’s (6250%). FB hadn’t IPOed yet ten years ago.
theonemind|4 years ago
PG tried calling it in 2007: http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html
They really changed when Satya Nadella came in, however.
(Not to romanticize. Big tech has a smarmy evil these days. Ballmer just wanted to sell Windows and Office like products to big enterprises. It was less disturbing than donning their sith robes and joining the rest of big tech in trying to posses our incorporeal souls through massive amounts of data and 'nudges'.)
nolok|4 years ago
ChuckNorris89|4 years ago
Yes, but actually, NO. I know it's fashionable to bash Ballmer for being the stereotypical image of the late '90's corporate villain, pulled right out of Office Space[1], but he was also the one who got the ball rolling on what we today know as Azure and saved the Xbox division during the red ring of death and other major issues that plagued the Xbox 360 and cost Microsoft billions.
If he only cared about the enterprise stuff, he would have sold the Xbox division or let it sink at the first sign of losses, but instead he propped it up despite the massive losses. IMHO, he should get some kudos for that as Xbox is currently the only competitor to the Play Station (Nintendo isn't since they do their own thing).
"I am trembling, sat in front of Steve (Ballmer), who I love to death, but he can be an intimidating human being. And Steve said, 'OK, talk me through this,'" Moore added. "I said, 'If we don't do this, this brand is dead.'" If we hadn't made that decision there and then, and instead tried to fudge over this problem, then the Xbox brand and Xbox One wouldn't exist today."[2]
Ballmer also set the stage for Microsoft's entry into the cloud space in the early days before it was even called Azure, when he saw what AWS was doing.
"Steve Ballmer, the former CEO of Microsoft, initially resisted the idea of embracing the software services paradigm fearing that it would cannibalize Windows and Office business which was contributing to 80% of the revenue. Eventually, Ballmer was not only convinced but pushed Microsoft to become a fully-fledged cloud company through “we’re-all-in” war cry."[3]
Not saying you should like him or anything, but this guys really deserves more credit that he gets for where Microsoft is today (the good and the bad).
As a bonus, for added humor, here he is going crazy on stage about 'DEVELOPERS', like a hamster on cocaine. [4].
[1] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0151804/
[2] https://www.vg247.com/rrod-xbox-360-ballmer-xbox-one
[3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/janakirammsv/2020/02/03/a-look-...
[4] https://youtu.be/I14b-C67EXY?t=12
unknown|4 years ago
[deleted]
itronitron|4 years ago
I think this is driven by an addiction of big tech to being 'relevant' and engagement is the metric that gives them that sweet hit of relevancy. Heaven forbid they just turn out a useful product for a reasonable profit.
BbzzbB|4 years ago
mgraczyk|4 years ago
it_does_follow|4 years ago
Because Netflix pays Senior Engineers ~$500k/year in cash and MS pays Principal Engineers $300k TC?
dasyatidprime|4 years ago
afterburner|4 years ago
Microsoft, Apple, Netflix, Alphabet, Meta, Amazon, Nvidia, Adobe
mixedCase|4 years ago
Maybe I'm misguided, but what I believe made FAANG a thing is a strong software-focused culture that maintained a level of quality and innovation that usually gets lost at that scale, as was the case with Microsoft and things like IBM.
ksec|4 years ago
julienfr112|4 years ago
detaro|4 years ago
redisman|4 years ago
jakswa|4 years ago
pkdpic|4 years ago
In any case Im going to throw NAMMA out there too because I can say it easier and it leaves room for infinite M companies :)
randomdata|4 years ago
Doo doo do do do.
coolspot|4 years ago
afterburner|4 years ago
cromka|4 years ago
MANAMA
robbedpeter|4 years ago
https://youtu.be/8N_tupPBtWQ
dhosek|4 years ago
unknown|4 years ago
[deleted]
dboreham|4 years ago
Cyph0n|4 years ago
I prefer MANAAM, which is derived from the word “sleep” in Arabic.
hinkley|4 years ago
Do doo do doo
fouc|4 years ago
2OEH8eoCRo0|4 years ago
[deleted]
vore|4 years ago
asiachick|4 years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU6QVlPq4gA
serverholic|4 years ago
it_does_follow|4 years ago
Same reason Cornell is typically left out of conversations about Ivy league schools.
It's just not that prestigious. Seeing MS on a resume is not as impressive as the others, and that's also reflected pretty clearly in the comp. It's not nearly as competitive to get a job at MS. The stock performance over the past decade has been pretty meh compared to the others.
eggy|4 years ago
Microsoft has some really cool stuff going on aside from .NET Core. Simon Peyton Jones has been there since the late 90s working on Haskell. Some notable ones for me: F#, F*, Z3 (SMT solver), C# and its ubiquity in products like Unity, WSL2, VS Code, etc...
What's up with Hololens 2? Any uptake? I would like to make a short video of the ultimate PC vs. Mac parody with two armies facing each other with one wearing the stylish MR glasses coming from Apple vs. the more typical-looking HMD Hololens for nostalgia's sake.
I have been in computing for a long time, and all of my jobs have been on PCs with Windows other than the weird Banyan Vines, VMS, Irix, and QNX systems I have worked with over the years. All my graphic artist friends had Apple products. I have had one job where I used Quickbooks on an old Apple Macintosh (1994), but not much else with it. I did put a deposit on a NeXT machine, but that fell through!
I have had a computer since 1977, a Commodore PET 2001 followed by a Vic-20. A Toshiba dual-floppy laptop that probably wouldn't fit under the seat in front in Economy Class seating. My first Apple was a Power Macintosh in 1995/96 (I think the 7200) on which I loaded Minix or some Minix derivative at a later date, a pen-based NCR 3125. Amazingly slim for the time, and I updated the drive in it a year or two later. My first real micro-electronics project. The Newton came out around the same time. The NCR 3125 was a 386 running PenOS that I eventually put Windows with pen support on. Various PCs I built (a RAID 0, Dual-Athlon anyone?) in the early 2000s running Blender3D. I donated $50 to support Ton's efforts to take it open source back then. And so on...Microsoft has always had the tech, but not the marketing or style of Apple. I currently use a Windows 10 gaming laptop, an old Lenovo running Kali, a 2011 iMac (1TB HD! 16 or 32 GB of RAM - I have to look). I just want tools I can use. The only computer/OS I was evangelical about was mh Amiga 1000 and 500!
bradleyjg|4 years ago
MSFT’s ten year total return (1482%) is better than AAPL’s (1256%) or GOOG’s (815%), but not as good as AMZN’s (1629%) or NFLX’s (6250%). FB hadn’t IPOed yet ten years ago.
This is per a site called finbox.