It's the third option: I guess we all know it's not the viagra, but I would suggest it's also not the sex but rather what is associated with a lifestyle that includes the potential for sex: a lifestyle with connection, a partner and possibly friends. A bigger social group is pretty tightly related to better health outcomes
We don't know any such things. Viagra has effects that could provide a plausible mechanism for a direct causal link. The article in particular points out that it directly interacts with amyloid and tau proteins, that are frequently implicated in Alzheimer's, and that they've explored it's effect on tau in vitro.
That of course is not proof of a causal link, but it's enough to justify follow up research.
That could be very easy to prove right or wrong: if it's the sex, then the wives of men taking viagra should be less likely to develop alzheimer's themselves.
The neurological effect of physical intimacy are probably second to none.. surely it triggers a massive positive side effect on your neurons everytime it happens.
Would be interesting to see what the effect with tadalafil is. Sildenafil is rather short acting while tadalafil is much longer acting. Tadalafil is also used in smaller but daily doses as a treatment for benign prostrate hyperplasia, so there should be more data on longer durations of use and effect.
> Sildenafil is more often prescribed to wealthy people and low socioeconomic status is associated with higher risk of Alzheimer’s.
> There are other possible explanations for these findings; for example, we know that brain changes start decades before dementia symptoms and it is possible that these early Alzheimer’s changes reduce sex drive (thus people wouldn’t ask for a prescription for erectile dysfunction). [...] They did try to control for this by looking into patients with pulmonary hypertension, which is sometimes treated with sildenafil. However, this group did not have a statistically significant decreased risk in Alzheimer’s disease.
> people who take sildenafil have less serious cardiovascular damage than those who are taking the other drugs to combat hypertension or diabetes. If cardiovascular damage is a key causal factor in developing Alzheimer’s disease, then these people might anyway be at an advantage compared to people who have to take drugs for hypertension, cardiovascular disease or diabetes. The study tried to control for this, but it is not clear if severity of the different conditions controlled for could be taken into account (those with more severe hypertension are presumably more likely to be taking anti-hypertensive medication such as losartan).
Many of the opinions are quite positive though, and praise the high sophistication of the statistical methods.
This is very interesting. The article points out twice that there is no evidence it's causal, but does proposr some potential causal mechanisms, all told a pretty reasonable summary of the finding.
I'm curious to know if there is any info related to alzheimers and sex drive. The 70% is based on chance developing alzheimers in the next six years, I wonder if there is any relation between a profile who would seek Viagra - I guess that would be people interested in sex, have an available partner, but having trouble - and one who would be less likely to get alzheimers soon.
I have a funny/sad/gross anecode: my flat neighbor had alzheimer's and I helped his wife for a few years, but really nothing much/special -- just getting him out of bed or off the toilet when he wouldn't budge (I can only imagine what his wife went through).
But very frequently when he was on the toilet he would play with his erm... sword and unsheathe it (Easter Europe, I'm cut, he wasn't) and his wife asked me why he did that?
And I was like.... "erm.... I think that question is overdue by about 40 years.."
Having a partner might lower the risk of Alzheimer's because having someone to talk to keeps your mind in a working condition. But also, taking Viagra means you are more likely to have sex and having sex might be the thing brain needs for "exercise".
I find it somewhat hilarious to think that soon the Covid vaccine infomercials might be extended with "To keep you safe also remember to have sex" .
I've always thought about how big of a role testosterone plays in later-life health and I wonder why doctors don't prescribe it to restore testosterone levels to a normal (for a younger person) level to prevent osteoporosis and other hormone-linked diseases. Not saying this conclusion in the article is related to testosterone, but I have to speculate on it.
Exogenous testosterone inevitably leads to your natural production going down. Same reason it's a bad idea to even dose a small amount of testosterone in order to help gain muscle quick.
iirc there also might be problems of (slightly) increased cancer risk.
there are some doctors who prescribe test to keep patients test level up later in life, but the increased quality of life might mean a decreased life span and not everyone is willing to take the trade-off.
patients willing to try usually just try a few doctors until they find one who does.
Layperson, admittedly, but it wouldn't shock me that a smooth muscle vasodilator affects cognition. It's good to be skeptical of those claims, but I don't think Occam's Razor cleaves so closely to the alternative explanations.
Exciting news but that 69% does sound a bit suspicious ("almost 70%" haha)! The link here between vasodilation and neurodegeneration isn't obvious though and it s going to take a lot of searching, but it is an interesting research direction
My hypothesis is that this might be indirectly related to the drug. Because sex increases blood circulation to the whole body, including the brain, this circulation helps the brain cells. Taking Viagra regularly for sexual pleasure has this positive side-effect of regular blood flow to the brain, thus reducing the chances of damage to the cells.
There are many correlative factors associated with taking viagra. The fact that older people that take viagra have a partner introduces a myriad of lifestyle differences. Being sexual active is another myriad of differences.
Of all the studies I've seen recently, this one scream Correlation != Causation.
"Notably, we found that sildenafil use reduced the likelihood of Alzheimer's in individuals with coronary artery disease, hypertension, and type 2 diabetes,..."
Every few days, articles like these keep cropping up with click-bait headlines about preventing all types of diseases in old age. The headlines almost always never match up to the content or even the reality of trying to treat or prevent these many diseases.
Another reality is that death, old age(and sickness with it) strikes such fear into people's hearts that they are willing to walk around with perpetual erections to prevent Alzheimer's disease(and the absurdity of my comment is linked to the absurdity of the click-bait title)
It's a smooth muscle vasodilator. Of course it will increase the blood flow of capillaries in the brain, the question is whether that's a good thing. It's plausible that it has some cognitive benefits — but also, entirely plausible that it might lead to oxidative damage. Without more research, it's impossible to say. Amid so many pseudoscientific headlines it's easy to be cynical, but this seems actually like a good research question to be asking.
Lots of people suggesting having sex might be a prophylactic but also consider that a lower "sex drive" might also be a factor here.
We don't know because we're looking at insurance claim data. You only see links. And only in people with insurance! You have to go much further to show causation.
do people who use viagra have a lower sex drive or simply erectile disfunction? after all they go and buy viagra and then do have sex. it's not like they pop viagra to have the urge to have sex, right?
Seems to be the conventional wisdom on this thread that any counterintuitive medical conclusion should be ignored and ascribed to psychosomatic factors, the placebo effect, or we're just testing for it more.
[+] [-] johmue|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vidarh|4 years ago|reply
That of course is not proof of a causal link, but it's enough to justify follow up research.
[+] [-] raducu|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] agumonkey|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] The_rationalist|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Scoundreller|4 years ago|reply
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30901259/
[+] [-] james_burden|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JamesBarney|4 years ago|reply
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-study-...
[+] [-] est31|4 years ago|reply
> Sildenafil is more often prescribed to wealthy people and low socioeconomic status is associated with higher risk of Alzheimer’s.
> There are other possible explanations for these findings; for example, we know that brain changes start decades before dementia symptoms and it is possible that these early Alzheimer’s changes reduce sex drive (thus people wouldn’t ask for a prescription for erectile dysfunction). [...] They did try to control for this by looking into patients with pulmonary hypertension, which is sometimes treated with sildenafil. However, this group did not have a statistically significant decreased risk in Alzheimer’s disease.
> people who take sildenafil have less serious cardiovascular damage than those who are taking the other drugs to combat hypertension or diabetes. If cardiovascular damage is a key causal factor in developing Alzheimer’s disease, then these people might anyway be at an advantage compared to people who have to take drugs for hypertension, cardiovascular disease or diabetes. The study tried to control for this, but it is not clear if severity of the different conditions controlled for could be taken into account (those with more severe hypertension are presumably more likely to be taking anti-hypertensive medication such as losartan).
Many of the opinions are quite positive though, and praise the high sophistication of the statistical methods.
[+] [-] version_five|4 years ago|reply
I'm curious to know if there is any info related to alzheimers and sex drive. The 70% is based on chance developing alzheimers in the next six years, I wonder if there is any relation between a profile who would seek Viagra - I guess that would be people interested in sex, have an available partner, but having trouble - and one who would be less likely to get alzheimers soon.
[+] [-] raducu|4 years ago|reply
But very frequently when he was on the toilet he would play with his erm... sword and unsheathe it (Easter Europe, I'm cut, he wasn't) and his wife asked me why he did that?
And I was like.... "erm.... I think that question is overdue by about 40 years.."
[+] [-] wruza|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] galaxyLogic|4 years ago|reply
I find it somewhat hilarious to think that soon the Covid vaccine infomercials might be extended with "To keep you safe also remember to have sex" .
[+] [-] johnvaluk|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] perth|4 years ago|reply
Viagra increases testosterone?
I wonder if this relates to other things that increase late-life testosterone like red meat (unprocessed)?
https://www.alzdiscovery.org/cognitive-vitality/blog/does-ea...
I've always thought about how big of a role testosterone plays in later-life health and I wonder why doctors don't prescribe it to restore testosterone levels to a normal (for a younger person) level to prevent osteoporosis and other hormone-linked diseases. Not saying this conclusion in the article is related to testosterone, but I have to speculate on it.
[+] [-] JamesBarney|4 years ago|reply
And most of the apparent benefits of testosterone look to be more correlational than causational. (except osteoporosis, and sarcopenia)
[+] [-] amelius|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tsol|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stefs|4 years ago|reply
there are some doctors who prescribe test to keep patients test level up later in life, but the increased quality of life might mean a decreased life span and not everyone is willing to take the trade-off.
patients willing to try usually just try a few doctors until they find one who does.
[+] [-] AltruisticGapHN|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neoncontrails|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cblconfederate|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] threevox|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JamesBarney|4 years ago|reply
1. The effect is huge.
2. Phospodiesterase is heavily expressed in neural and glial cells
3. There are a ton of alzheimers rodent RCTs with positive results.
[+] [-] phekunde|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] q1w2|4 years ago|reply
Of all the studies I've seen recently, this one scream Correlation != Causation.
[+] [-] jjtheblunt|4 years ago|reply
"Notably, we found that sildenafil use reduced the likelihood of Alzheimer's in individuals with coronary artery disease, hypertension, and type 2 diabetes,..."
[+] [-] lobocinza|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phantom_oracle|4 years ago|reply
Another reality is that death, old age(and sickness with it) strikes such fear into people's hearts that they are willing to walk around with perpetual erections to prevent Alzheimer's disease(and the absurdity of my comment is linked to the absurdity of the click-bait title)
[+] [-] neoncontrails|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wsc981|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oliwarner|4 years ago|reply
Lots of people suggesting having sex might be a prophylactic but also consider that a lower "sex drive" might also be a factor here.
We don't know because we're looking at insurance claim data. You only see links. And only in people with insurance! You have to go much further to show causation.
[+] [-] pas|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hungryforcodes|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cjbenedikt|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Markoff|4 years ago|reply
If they wanna prove it's thanks to viagra they should find people who don't have sex, take viagra and have lower risk of developing Alzheimers.
[+] [-] InsomniacL|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] narrator|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BugsHack|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tedk-42|4 years ago|reply