[stephentmcm]

Tell me you don't understand memes without telling me you don't understand memes.

Memes != Jokes. A meme is a repeated and iterated phenomenon be it a picture, phrase, video, image or thought. Just because it isn't funny (to you) doesn't make it a meme, just because you find it funny doesn't make it a meme. To graduate from thing to meme needs repetition, iteration and spread.

[theshrike79]

Yes, that's the dictionary definition of meme.

But in practical use "meme" has devolved to mean "a picture with a joke" pretty much. There may be a meme-like shared component, but mostly it's just a picture with a joke in it.

[galaxyLogic]

I think "meme" is a bit more than a picture with a joke. Of course anything can be called a "meme" but it is meaningless to do so if we discard the original conceptual meaning of "meme" altogether.

First of all a meme is something that can spread by duplication, and possibly mutate in the process. It must be like a gene in that respect.

Secondly it doesn't need to be a "joke". It must be something that TELLS us something about the world we live in, and about people around us. It has to have a message. Maybe the message is expressed in terms of a joke and yes jokes tell us something about the world. A meme might be an expression that aptly describes a recurring situation. We may not laugh at it, but inside our heads we say "yes that truly describes that situation".

A meme is like a poem, like a haiku. It catches the essence of some situation that many people encounter. It succinctly tells us a lot. Therefore it spreads because it is easy to pass on, and it has value because it tells us a lot.

There have been jokes circulating on the internet for a long time. But jokes are not "memes". Jokes are something that make us laugh, memes are something that tell us the essence of some recurring phenomenon.

[ajuc]

There are memes that aren't funny and aren't meant to be funny. Mostly political ones.

Sometimes memes were funny, then got (over)used in a particular context and now they aren't used as jokes, they just symbolize that thing. For example pepe frog.

[mr_mitm]

Looks like people are using three different definitions of "meme".

* Richard Dawkin's original definition, who invented the term "meme" in 1976, even though the idea of memes and memes itself existed before

* pictures with text at the top and at the bottom, I believe originating from the "advice dog" meme

* some well known internet joke, like the hunter2 thing from bash.org which is repeated on reddit whenever someone mentions passwords

[kergonath]

This one, for example:

> Tell me you don't understand memes without telling me you don't understand memes.

It was clever the first time, now it is absolutely everywhere, and often uttered by idiots who did not even read the comment they are responding to (not saying you are specifically, but it is what I observe generally). This one is a virus spreading to otherwise initially healthy discussions threads and turning them into brainless “wit” contests.

So yeah, memes are quite commonly used as rhetoric or harassment techniques, quite far from some supposed humour.

[coldtea]

You don't seem to understand memes.

It's not about the etymology or the repeatition and spread.

That's just where the name comes from.

But once memes got into an established culture of its own, with specific norms, practices, designs, and so on, you can make a meme even if it gets no views and is not shared with nobody ever.

If it catches on it's a viral meme.

But even if it doesn't catch on (or even if it stays on the creators hard drive forever), such a creation can fully have a meme format, form, and content and thus be a meme in that (duck-typing) sense.

Don't get too caught on the initial Dawkins-derived descriptions of memes by the popular press, that focused on the viral aspect. That was important to make memes a cultural force, and to contribute to aspects of it (self-reference, folk re-workings, and so on). But virality is not the be-all end-all ever since there's a huge established meme legacy and practice.

Same how you can make "pop music" (music that follows the form, production, values etc of pop song) even if it's not popular, and never breaks into the top-200, or even if nobody ever hears it except you and your DAW.

[BlueTemplar]

"Words for communication" are different from "words for thinking", but both aspects are important.

If you forget about the "words for thinking" aspect, then you are doomed to keep getting stuck in pointless discussions that get nowhere about, for instance, "socialism".

(And the "words for communication" aspects is obviously important for quick communication.)