When you become parents (whether that is for the first or the nth time), a specialized nurse will visit your home for 24-80 hours spread over multiple days to help with anything required. If it's your first, she/he will mainly focus on teaching (how to bathe a baby, how to give breastfeeding etc.). If it's your second or more, the focus will be more on keeping the house tidy (vacuuming, cleaning up) and helping with the older kids (getting them from school etc.). And all the while, the kraamzorger will keep a log of the baby (weight, temperature, how often it poops and pees etc.) to make sure it's healthy.
Seriously, I don't know how I would have handled having my first newborn without the hands-on-live-counseling kraamzorg provides.
We had our first baby in June. We're expats, without any family around. Kraamzorg was a godsent. The nurse turned what's been a chaotic and frightening time for all of my acquaintances back home, into a blissful week.
We'd take a long nap every afternoon, and wake up to a fresh bowl of fruit salad. We had such a peace of mind to know that we were being supervised and taught by a pro, and that we therefore could do no wrong.
We were a bit skeptical about the Dutch system at first, but I really grew fond of their approach.
I would not exist if my mother had been in the US or another location with private healthcare when she was pregnant with me. She had a tough pregnancy and had to take a significant amount of time off work and was on bedrest for approximately 3 months. During those ~3 months, she had a medical professional come to her home every day (her midwife and doctor alternated days). This would simply not be possible if healthcare were not free at the point of care as it is in the UK and many other countries. I don’t know much about the postnatal care, and I know things have gotten worse in the UK over the past decades, but I’m eternally grateful to the prenatal care that the NHS provided.
It is very much a standard post natal package in Switzerland, and in France too IIRC. We had tons of visits for the first one, quite helpful, spread over longer period. Only 1-2 for second one, but it could be more if needed. The only difference is that they don't do cleaning, at least ours didn't.
They are called "sage-femme" in french (wise woman in literal translation). Most od advices were nothing new to my wife since she is a doctor, but even for her sometimes best practices brought something new and more efficient/safe. And of course regular basic checks on the baby are helpful without the need to visit doctor.
We never paid anything extra, covered by health insurance.
It's divided into two parts in Denmark, After birth of the first child, you're offered to stay at the hospital for a few days (unspecified duration, depending on issues being faced) to get help with getting breastfeeding going, diapers, and monitoring the babys health.
After you get home, a nurse will schedule regular (weekly at first, then gradually longer between) visits to weigh/measure the child and record if the baby appears to be developing correctly, and provide advice in matters concerning childcare. This goes on for the first year.
Its fantastic, indeed. But you need to insure yourself if you want the costs to be reimbursed, and its never free to insure yourself outside the basisverzekering (basic insurance package, the mandatory default which has become less and less over the years). Our first one was due in February, second in September. Both came roughly on time. But you start your insurance package in December (before new year) so for second we had to pay ourselves cause was conceived in January, while first one was 7 months in so a very easy choice.
In Korea there are birthcare centers where mothers can go for two weeks to a month to rest and recuperate after delivering a baby, and nurses will care for the baby and teach the mothers how to care for the baby. Of course food, laundry etc are taken care of by the centers. Hospitals offer that service as well, but bed spaces are typically more limited in hospitals.
Come to think of it, this is great thinking. Sure, it's mostly symbolic but the message itself is beautiful: Finland is a wealthy nation and even in wealthy nations people don't get equal start: surely you'd have better options when your dad is an F1 world champion than the local plumber, but even so, this serves as a nice reminder. Sort of reminds me of a short story written about a century ago(and only one English translation that I'm aware of which is absolute crap annoyingly). With that in mind this[1] is probably more worthy of reading than the wretched translation.
We got a one of these in Scotland, and I have to say a few years on, we're only just getting rid of the last of the items. Some items were arguably more useful than others (but I think the inventory is reviewed and updated constantly) - we never used the baby box as intended and it could be argued that we never really needed the support, but I can't understand the people who would argue against such an initiative.
People in this country were up in arms when this was first suggested ... bristling with the absolute indignity at the thought of money being spent to help others.
There are ~3.75 million babies born in the US each year [1]. If each baby box costs ~200 USD [2] the country could supply baby boxes for all babies with an annual outlay of ~750 million USD.
Being a father of two and seeing how much money and decisions goes into buying baby stuff and thinking how struggling family might find it inaccessible it makes me cry to read “give all children in Finland, no matter what background they're from, an equal start in life.”
Other countries give welfare benefits in form of money but that can be spent on things like addictions, in this case giving the set of necessary care items is much better
> Other countries give welfare benefits in form of money but that can be spent on things like addictions
Why is it that when discussing welfare benefits the topic of them being spent on addictions is often brought up.
If an addiction is a problem, treat the addiction instead of treating welfare recipients as children. How pissed would you be if your employer dictated how you spent your wages because certain activities went against their beliefs. No donating to your local church because they believe religion is silly and their employees shouldn’t be wasting money on such things. People would be pissed. An extreme example I know but helps get the point across, but same could also be said about any vice we partake in.
Coming from a shitty childhood myself such things were often brought up and implemented poorly which tbh actually hurt us as kids growing up.
Yeah a few will exploit what ever system that’s put into place, you have only got to look at most tax systems to see that, but you don’t punish the many just because of the few.
But just a bit further down the article
> Mothers have a choice between taking the box, or a cash grant, currently set at 140 euros, but 95% opt for the box as it's worth much more.
Bulk ordering and a fairly consistent birth rate will mean the government are not paying retail for these items so the box can be worth more than straight cash even if the cost of the government per box is close to the cash grant but gives an incentive to parents take higher value to them option.
Sorry for the rant, it just pisses me off having been though it. EDIT: Also lack of coffee, I'm grumpy without coffee :-P
I would appreciate this baby box even as a parent fortunate enough to afford the material goods it contains. A large part of its value lies in the time and effort saved and the psychological comfort in knowing I haven’t forgotten anything essential.
Finnbin [1] is a company that sold Finnish style baby boxes in the US up until July 2021. Oddly enough, they appear to have suspended operations due to a US Consumer Product Safety Commission ruling that effectively bans baby boxes.
It appears that the CPSC in the US has decided that it's safer for babies to sleep in objects that can be tipped over (must have legs) than in a box on the ground.
My baby is due in 4 weeks. My wife and I shopped for weeks trying to buy a 2nd hand crib that was affordable (We ended up getting one for free from a neighbor on nextdoor).
Never did it cross my mind that I could just use a cardboard box! I will definitely make a cardboard box for my upcoming baby, use it as much as I can, and see if I could get by without a crib! Perfect DIY project for a stay home dad, cribs always felt excessive to me.
I have several kids. Let me share some experiences with you:
A card board box is probably fine starting out, but your baby will out grow it.
The sleeping container should have walls high enough to prevent him/her from climbing out - this might take 9 months, but younwill want it
You NEED to remove all fluf and excess padding in your DIY "crib". Babies can suffocate on cute "fluffy" blankets
If you build a wooden crib, pay special care to the distance between vertical bars. Specifically, you want narrow slats so your baby cannot stick his/her head through it
My current child is in a portable "pack and play". They are cheap, portable, and fit in our closet. She turns 2 next month and it was a really good idea.
I went with this solid wood crib from IKEA and stained it myself. Looks great pretty darn cheap and easy to break down and store. Can also convert to a trundle style and double as the child’s first real bed so it gets several years of use.
My wife got one of those boxes from a places that gives them out for free but the kid out grows it fast and it is hell on your back since it is really unsafe to leave it on a table or dresser where it could be easily knocked off. Now it collects dust and junk and I can’t get her to dispose of it.
* Mass manufactured Finnish ones have a base-mat that fits snugly. A very slight gap is a suffocation risk.
* When your first baby arrives, you spend a lot more time than you're used to on your knees. Cribs, being raised, are far easier on your knees than a box on the floor.
If your baby is due in 4 weeks it’s likely it’ll be quite a few months until a crib is needed. The first months will pass in a tired blur of the baby sleeping only on you or your partner, followed waking up the second you try to put them on anything else. Once they use a crib though just buy one — you won’t have time to build and it’s important to make it safe.
Check out your local Buy Nothing group on facebook as well. I have gotten tons of baby stuff from there. While we have purchased quite a few things over the past year, had I had a little more patience, and had my wife been more on board, I am pretty sure we could have acquired pretty much everything except diapers from Buy Nothing.
For the early months (or longer if you child proof the entire room), you can do just the crib mattress directly on the floor. This is also an easy way to set up a secondary nap spot somewhere else in the house (since it's safer for small infants to sleep in the same room as an adult vs. by themselves).
Don't stress too much about it. Very few items are really necessary for a newborn, most things can be gotten when you need them.
As DIY projects go, check out something called a "baby nest". It's an insert that can be used for either a shared bed or a crib, easy to sew and can be convenient.
Not sure if an Amazon box would be equal, they have a smell to them. It looks like the Finnish boxes are wrapped in some material and I'd guess that some kind of checks would be made to ensure safety.
I wanted one so bad I asked whether they'd send to New Zealand, and it was almost $700 USD or so, luckily after some searching I come across NZ version of it minus all the supplies
We paid for a Finnish style box here in the UK. Baby fairly rapidly outgrew it with 3 months or so, but not before he started to wake us up by hitting his arms on the side and making a thumping noise.
We were warned by some pros to make sure to monitor the temperature closely - don't leave it on the floor where it might be too cold, and allow air to circulate to avoid it getting too hot etc. We bought a cheap Ikea side-table that was approx the same size and built a basic barrier around the edge by screwing in some shelf supports to the side-table (as well as some up-stands on the table surface to allow air to circulate) so that it was basically like any other bassinet thing you can buy. Price-wise we probably mad a loss compared to just buying something prebuilt, but I think my wife quite liked me "building a bed for baby".
The box is now used as a toy box! We'll certainly get another one for the next baby.
I’m perpetually amazed how well Finland is ran. It’s just a country with its shit frozen together.
It’s a particular comparison point for me, as it has a similar (vaguely) recent history to Poland, having regained its independence in 1918, and living in Russia’s shadow most of that time. The difficult, exploitative years under the Russian thumb are usually blamed for most of the mess in Poland right now. Clearly there is another way.
When we were travelling our baby slept in a suit case, (thinking outside the box?). I bought a clone from https://www.finnishbabybox.com/learn/tradition/, the content is great too, and the box is now used for toys...
In Taiwan these cardboard boxes for infants are sold in most baby shops as well. Although much more expensive than a comparable box from the post office...
Here in the US we had a special high strength box that allowed our child to sleep between us when warranted, it was strong enough to keep us from rolling over accidents.
This is really odd comment. Like, yes, if you leave it outside in the rain that probably isn't the best for it, but it is a bed thous usually stay indoors. I don't get what your imaginary scenario is where the structure of the box is randomly compromised by the moisture.
The flammability is even more strange. Again yeah, maybe don't put your baby box right in from the of the fireplace, but you probably wouldn't leave your baby there unsupervised anyway. Also babies usually aren't smokers so you don't have to worry about them dozing off with a cigarette and burning down the house.
[+] [-] leokennis|4 years ago|reply
When you become parents (whether that is for the first or the nth time), a specialized nurse will visit your home for 24-80 hours spread over multiple days to help with anything required. If it's your first, she/he will mainly focus on teaching (how to bathe a baby, how to give breastfeeding etc.). If it's your second or more, the focus will be more on keeping the house tidy (vacuuming, cleaning up) and helping with the older kids (getting them from school etc.). And all the while, the kraamzorger will keep a log of the baby (weight, temperature, how often it poops and pees etc.) to make sure it's healthy.
Seriously, I don't know how I would have handled having my first newborn without the hands-on-live-counseling kraamzorg provides.
[+] [-] lbreakjai|4 years ago|reply
We'd take a long nap every afternoon, and wake up to a fresh bowl of fruit salad. We had such a peace of mind to know that we were being supervised and taught by a pro, and that we therefore could do no wrong.
We were a bit skeptical about the Dutch system at first, but I really grew fond of their approach.
[+] [-] noodlesUK|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] InsomniacL|4 years ago|reply
Also, 'skin-on-skin' contact after giving birth is a chargeable extra.
We don't know how fortunate we are here in the UK with the NHS.
[+] [-] saiya-jin|4 years ago|reply
They are called "sage-femme" in french (wise woman in literal translation). Most od advices were nothing new to my wife since she is a doctor, but even for her sometimes best practices brought something new and more efficient/safe. And of course regular basic checks on the baby are helpful without the need to visit doctor.
We never paid anything extra, covered by health insurance.
[+] [-] 8fingerlouie|4 years ago|reply
After you get home, a nurse will schedule regular (weekly at first, then gradually longer between) visits to weigh/measure the child and record if the baby appears to be developing correctly, and provide advice in matters concerning childcare. This goes on for the first year.
[+] [-] Fnoord|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shard|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cjrp|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] axegon_|4 years ago|reply
[1] https://lamfyk.wordpress.com/2020/05/02/the-tale-of-the-stai...
[+] [-] shifty1|4 years ago|reply
Content of the box: https://www.parentclub.scot/baby-box
Study on impact of the box: https://www.gov.scot/publications/baby-box-evaluation/pages/...
[+] [-] test1235|4 years ago|reply
People in this country were up in arms when this was first suggested ... bristling with the absolute indignity at the thought of money being spent to help others.
[+] [-] wombatmobile|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] divbzero|4 years ago|reply
[1]: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/births.htm
[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29646674
[+] [-] koksik202|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Crosseye_Jack|4 years ago|reply
Why is it that when discussing welfare benefits the topic of them being spent on addictions is often brought up.
If an addiction is a problem, treat the addiction instead of treating welfare recipients as children. How pissed would you be if your employer dictated how you spent your wages because certain activities went against their beliefs. No donating to your local church because they believe religion is silly and their employees shouldn’t be wasting money on such things. People would be pissed. An extreme example I know but helps get the point across, but same could also be said about any vice we partake in.
Coming from a shitty childhood myself such things were often brought up and implemented poorly which tbh actually hurt us as kids growing up.
Yeah a few will exploit what ever system that’s put into place, you have only got to look at most tax systems to see that, but you don’t punish the many just because of the few.
But just a bit further down the article
> Mothers have a choice between taking the box, or a cash grant, currently set at 140 euros, but 95% opt for the box as it's worth much more.
Bulk ordering and a fairly consistent birth rate will mean the government are not paying retail for these items so the box can be worth more than straight cash even if the cost of the government per box is close to the cash grant but gives an incentive to parents take higher value to them option.
Sorry for the rant, it just pisses me off having been though it. EDIT: Also lack of coffee, I'm grumpy without coffee :-P
[+] [-] divbzero|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] divbzero|4 years ago|reply
[1]: https://www.finnbin.com/
[2]: https://www.finnbin.com/blogs/news/finnbin-suspends-operatio...
[+] [-] stevehawk|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] systemBuilder|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jsnell|4 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5817728
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12547353
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20884456
[+] [-] songzme|4 years ago|reply
Never did it cross my mind that I could just use a cardboard box! I will definitely make a cardboard box for my upcoming baby, use it as much as I can, and see if I could get by without a crib! Perfect DIY project for a stay home dad, cribs always felt excessive to me.
[+] [-] geoduck14|4 years ago|reply
A card board box is probably fine starting out, but your baby will out grow it.
The sleeping container should have walls high enough to prevent him/her from climbing out - this might take 9 months, but younwill want it
You NEED to remove all fluf and excess padding in your DIY "crib". Babies can suffocate on cute "fluffy" blankets
If you build a wooden crib, pay special care to the distance between vertical bars. Specifically, you want narrow slats so your baby cannot stick his/her head through it
My current child is in a portable "pack and play". They are cheap, portable, and fit in our closet. She turns 2 next month and it was a really good idea.
[+] [-] pmorici|4 years ago|reply
My wife got one of those boxes from a places that gives them out for free but the kid out grows it fast and it is hell on your back since it is really unsafe to leave it on a table or dresser where it could be easily knocked off. Now it collects dust and junk and I can’t get her to dispose of it.
https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/sniglar-crib-beech-50248541/
[+] [-] danielheath|4 years ago|reply
* Mass manufactured Finnish ones have a base-mat that fits snugly. A very slight gap is a suffocation risk.
* When your first baby arrives, you spend a lot more time than you're used to on your knees. Cribs, being raised, are far easier on your knees than a box on the floor.
[+] [-] Swizec|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cranekam|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qqqwerty|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PebblesRox|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xorcist|4 years ago|reply
As DIY projects go, check out something called a "baby nest". It's an insert that can be used for either a shared bed or a crib, easy to sew and can be convenient.
[+] [-] qwertox|4 years ago|reply
I wish your family all the best.
[+] [-] whatshisface|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kristofferR|4 years ago|reply
https://www.finnbin.com/blogs/news/finnbin-suspends-operatio...
[+] [-] alliao|4 years ago|reply
https://www.wdhb.org.nz/other/wahakurapepi-pods/
[+] [-] mattlondon|4 years ago|reply
We were warned by some pros to make sure to monitor the temperature closely - don't leave it on the floor where it might be too cold, and allow air to circulate to avoid it getting too hot etc. We bought a cheap Ikea side-table that was approx the same size and built a basic barrier around the edge by screwing in some shelf supports to the side-table (as well as some up-stands on the table surface to allow air to circulate) so that it was basically like any other bassinet thing you can buy. Price-wise we probably mad a loss compared to just buying something prebuilt, but I think my wife quite liked me "building a bed for baby".
The box is now used as a toy box! We'll certainly get another one for the next baby.
[+] [-] rich_sasha|4 years ago|reply
It’s a particular comparison point for me, as it has a similar (vaguely) recent history to Poland, having regained its independence in 1918, and living in Russia’s shadow most of that time. The difficult, exploitative years under the Russian thumb are usually blamed for most of the mess in Poland right now. Clearly there is another way.
[+] [-] leobg|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nxpnsv|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] bigbassroller|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Loranubi|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pxeboot|4 years ago|reply
[1] https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/health/2016/07/04/alaskas-la...
[+] [-] d0gsg0w00f|4 years ago|reply
[Weak stomach warning] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_birth
[+] [-] mikewarot|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] divbzero|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 29athrowaway|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomcam|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nextlevelwizard|4 years ago|reply
The flammability is even more strange. Again yeah, maybe don't put your baby box right in from the of the fireplace, but you probably wouldn't leave your baby there unsupervised anyway. Also babies usually aren't smokers so you don't have to worry about them dozing off with a cigarette and burning down the house.
[+] [-] pandemicsoul|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
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