[chunghuaming]

Being a Chinese citizen right now means:

- You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad)

- You cannot go beyond China's intranet

- You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks

- You cannot watch Spiderman, BTS, squid games, porn and many many more things legally

- You have very little rights as LGBT

- You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat

- You are constantly watched, monitored, "invited" to police station for tea, banned for posts that contain any words that are on the growing banned list

- You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared)

- You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power

- You are constantly subjugated to random mass testing

- Oh and there's the yearly flood + crashing economy + crashing real estate + aging workforce + factory jobs leaving + dictatorship

终究怀揣的不安，是愈来愈近的丧钟声

[forgotmyoldname]

I used to think China was some North Korean-style hellscape and hated the country.

Then I had a flight transfer through China and decided to take a couple days there just to see how bad it was. Ended up realizing most internet comments and news articles are posted by people who are absolutely obsessed with China and only get their information through seventh-hand sources--it's that insanely distorted.

Left loving the country because everything was so contrary to my conditioned expectations and went back for a few more trips.

Pushing a super hard anti-anything narrative in this age is bound to backfire, because finding information contrary to it isn't hard.

[lifeformed]

Everyday life is generally okay there, and it's not hard to have a great time as a tourist there. The problems are if you are unhappy with the status quo and are a dissenter.

You can flourish there, relatively, if you follow the rules. But if you get on the government's bad side you will be quashed.

[bamboozled]

> Then I had a flight transfer through China and decided to take a couple days there just to see how bad it was.

Right because a couple of days (I'll presume in a city) would also give you a real insight to how things really are.

[hiptobecubic]

If by "seventh-hand" you mean "first- and second-hand" then ok.

[KerrAvon]

You don’t even need to go to a foreign country for this experience. I read bullshit about how bad conditions in California are all the time from right-wingers who just want to propagandize for their own political benefit.

However: you seem to be telling a native Chinese person that they’re wrong about their impressions of their own country. Do you want to maybe add some nuance to that?

[chunghuaming]

This sounds like a paid endorsement sponsored by CCP. No real refutes, just brush air away by hand.

You visited a few times huh? I was born and lived there for 30 years.

[TeeMassive]

Then after a few months your Chinese business partner gets a bit too envious and denounce you to the police for "spying" or "fraud". Of course being not Chinese you basically have no rights and you get exit banned or disappeared while your partner takes over everything your owned.

That happened to a lot of people.

[nebula8804]

>You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad)

Really? What accounts for all the Chinese tourists visiting Europe/UK/USA? I have a friend who runs a hostel in Edinburgh and the majority of her guests are Chinese so much so that they have had to print signs in Mandarin asking people to abide by certain rules.

>You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks

This must not be enforced that severely given how much capital has flowed into other countries real estate market. In fact this is a common loophole used to get US citizenship. (invest 500k and you can get a green card).

[ravel-bar-foo]

The "cannot travel abroad" claim might refer to one of two things:

1. China requires extremely long quarantines when entering the country. 14 days in a quarantine hotel + 7 days at home is standard. Some jurisdictions go as high as 28 + 28.

2. China has recently restricted issuances of new and renewed passports. This is being done locally, so enforcement is inconsistent, but generally one needs a strong reason ("studying abroad", "international business") to get a passport issued now.

China allows transfer out of the country for the purpose of buying homes, but cash transfers are restricted to a certain annual limit. The restrictions on transferring currency out of China and on exchanging currency are a huge problem for expats leaving the country. Until this year, the recommendation for expats leaving the country was to use bitcoin.

[simonh]

The policy changed pretty recently, a friend of mine married to a Chinese citizen, and has been living there for almost a decade. They left in 2019 because the attitude to foreigners working in China, and Chinese going abroad has undergone a sea change. There are strict controls on capital flows, it's much harder to get work or visit visas for Chinese going abroad, many Chinese working abroad have been put under pressure to go back. They left before him working there got untenable, and it got too hard for his wife to leave.

This has been masked over the last 2 years by the pandemic, but it started a few years before.

[chunghuaming]

There are way less Chinese tourists in Europe/US now. I think they might just be oversea Chinese students in US and western world, looking to travel.

[schleck8]

The issues will start arising at some point.

Things like banning porn simply don't work unless substituted. People have already turned to amateur recordings instead. That's things the elderly rulers don't want to or can't understand. Ultimate control is not possible with human beings, especially in the 21st century.

[IsThisYou]

> (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared)

How did that happen? Iirc, according to Hurun Report 10 years ago, some 80% of the upper class Chinese had an escape plan ready. You'd think, as a billionaire they have a plane waiting for them 24/7 to get out of the country.

> You cannot travel abroad

In the border with Vietnam, at night you can cross the border for 5 yuan on one of the smuggler boats.

> You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power

Only country in the world with more female suicides than male suicides.

Also, no recourse if CCP thugs steal your stuff. Guy I knew had his Ferrari stolen. Couldn't do anything because the thief was a local party functionary's son.

[hulahoof]

> You'd think, as a billionaire they have a plane waiting for them 24/7 to get out of the country.

I guess disappeared could mean they are on a beach somewhere under an alias, but I don't think we can assume that for all of them

[star-trek-fleet]

None of these can be attributed to authoritarian, or some form of CCP brutality, when moderate amount of scrutiny is applied ...

> - You cannot travel abroad (no passport for average citizens, except for those that study/work abroad)

This is of course because of China's CVOID policy, which is 0 tolerance. That's a rational decision of China's high-density population, and manufacturing-based economy. I do not think it's inherent anti-human-rights, as the death count is fractional to open-co-existence policy. Life itself is a human right, and probably the most precious one.

> - You cannot go beyond China's intranet

VPNs are legal in China. You just need to be technically-sophisticated enough to find the correct VPNs, and make sure it falls in the boundary of Chinese law.

> - You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks

This is just not true... You can use various services to transfer money out. The only issue is that they are subject to certain limitations, which are far more restrictive than US. But again, US dominates world financial system, there is a view that financial imperialism is a key part of US capitalist exploiting Chinese workers. Thus the financial limitation. I doubt that anyone other than the rob-barrons are affected by this. I personally know a lot of Crypto super riches, trust me, they are absolutely a net negative force in society.

> - You cannot watch Spiderman, BTS, squid games, porn and many many more things legally

You can. VPN to netflix. And a lot of pirated content. They were just not allowed to go through the official channel. Of course, CCP is wrong here. But let's not paint a picture that Chinese people are sheeps.

> - You have very little rights as LGBT

Not sure what you are talking about. LGBT is not discriminated officially in any form in the CHinese society. Society still holds stigma over these people. One primary reason is that these groups are associated with higher chance of sexually-transmitted diseases.

And dont assume me a CCP associate, I have a good friend who is gay. He is my college friend. He is pretty happy.

> - You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat

This is probably what forced upon by the private firms. These are punished heavily by CCP recently. Jack Ma and Alibaba are the defender of 996...

> - You are constantly watched, monitored, "invited" to police station for tea, banned for posts that contain any words that are on the growing banned list

This is not true. I have several wechat groups discussing serious political issues in China. None of the 50 people ever had any sign of being bothered. I mean, there is no way that one is constantly watched in China. If that's true, China either already have an AGI, or what we bought everyone are not actually made in China, because there are simply not enough cheap labor to produce them in the first place, and most of them are employed in watching others.

> - You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared)

1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared...

First, the number of billionaires are unknown. Chinese society had a tradition of the rich become victims during the terminal phase of the dynasty. So the rich is very well aware of this fact, and they hide. Do you know that Mr. Deng Xiaoping's son is astronomically rich, but you'll never see anywhere his net worth is published?

Second, please give a citation... To engage this discussion is putting legitimacy on this ridiculous claim...

> - You have little recourse as a woman who is abused by men in power

Come on... This becomes ridiculous... Gender equality in China is pretty high. Ranked 38th out of 157 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_China I mean it's not spectacular, but your statement is just outlandish...

> - You are constantly subjugated to idiotic mass testing/lockdown

What do you mean? I said a lot of bad words about CCP. I was not distant by my family or friends...

> - Oh and there's the yearly flood + crashing economy + crashing real estate + aging workforce + factory jobs leaving + dictatorship

If you read western media, then these are what they said. But these are not true according to what I hear from my friends and family.

[east2west]

You are spewing lies and half truth.

> Life itself is a human right, and probably the most precious one.

How can welding front gates shut be protecting human life? How can anyone survive after being cut off from food, medicine, supplies, contact, income? Don't pretend zero-tolerance policy is about protecting people, it is to protect Xi JingPing who has staked his personal political standing on the zero tolerance policy[1].

Some regions have been under continual lock-down for the better part of this year. Do you know how many people have died from lock-down? Does anyone know? Does CCP permit anyone to count? For that matter, how many people died in Wuhan two years ago? Why is CCP killing a citizen journalist for writing about Wuhan outbreak[2]? Is her life not human?

>VPNs are legal in China. You just need to be technically-sophisticated enough to find the correct VPNs, and make sure it falls in the boundary of Chinese law.

Pray tell which VPNs are legal in China? Which one can I use to visit HN legally in China? What is stopping an enterprising person to make your "correct" VPNs user friendly to the mass? I will you, because it does not exist!

> I have several wechat groups discussing serious political issues in China.

Why don't you post to your WeChat groups "佟丽娅嫁给中宣部副部长," reputed marriage of an actress to the vice minister of Propaganda Ministry and take a screenshot? You cannot even search it in Baidu, and you have the gall to say the Internet in China is constantly watched.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/xi-jinpings-leadership-style-mi... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/reporter-zhang-zhan-riske...

[masterof0]

This is an US site, most people here believe that they hear from the media, and is understandable, the same way most Chinese people believe that they see in CCTV. I get people in China asking if I'm safe, or if my house was assaulted by antifa. I think people if they are really interested of what is happening in either country should do their research, instead of parroting what they hear in Youtube. But yeah, you will get downvoted , so will I. ;)

[matt123456789]

> I have several wechat groups discussing serious political issues in China.

Maybe you do, but do you discuss how millions of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang province were (are?) detained in concentration camps [0] and forced to provide quarter to government agents in their own homes under a dehumanizing “big brother” program [1]? Or how the CCP forced Uighurs to surgically implant IUDs and undergo forced abortion and sterilization procedures [2]? That would probably get you on the CCP’s radar.

Don’t pretend like there’s any semblance of open discussion about truly controversial issues.

> I mean, there is no way that one is constantly watched in China.

The “constantly watched” bit is a total strawman. Nobody is implying that all Chinese citizens are constantly watched by CCP thugs. All that is needed is a search engine on top of indexed WeChat message contents to help direct a limited number of investigations against political dissidents who may threaten the CCP’s grip on power - or as they refer to it, “stability”.

[0]: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1270014

Selected quote: “Every former camp detainee Amnesty interviewed in the report recounted cruel and degrading treatment, including torture. The report, released Thursday, is based on interviews with 108 people, including 55 camp survivors and several government cadres who worked in the camps.”

Yes, it happened. Your most recent comment as of right now attempts to cast doubt on this fact.

[1]: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/05/08/asia/china-xinjiang-ethni...

Selected quote: “Her four "guests" are Chinese government cadres who lived in her home for 10 days every month for two years before her family fled, she said.”

Think about what that would be like. It’s as horrible as it is effective, and it’s partly why the Third Amendment to the US Constitution exists.

[2]: https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-we...

Selected quote: “But while equal on paper, in practice Han Chinese are largely spared the abortions, sterilizations, IUD insertions and detentions for having too many children that are forced on Xinjiang’s other ethnicities, interviews and data show.”

Think about what it would be like for your government to show up at your door, handcuff you, take you to a hospital, anesthetize you, and surgically remove your ability to procreate. That’s what the CCP does to its own people.

[masterof0]

> You cannot transfer money out of country legally, pretty soon can't invest in other countries's stocks. Not true.

> You should not get rich (1/3 of billionaires have died or disappeared) Also not true. FuErDais are praise on TV, movies, etc... Crazy Rich Asians , the movie , was a huge hit in China for example, etc... Money and superficiality have always being huge in China (even to get married, you need to buy a house , a car, and give the girl's family money (CaiLi)). > You have to work 9-9-6. Which is why many citizens are lying flat Highly depends on where you work. But is not standarized, and there have been recently a huge push back from the goverment about this. > You cannot go beyond China's intranet Literally that's what VPNs are for, many chinese companies offer VPN services to mainland users, etc.

All other points are more or less right. Also, p*rn is illegal in most places. I wouldn't live there, but posting lies here wont help anyone.

[chunghuaming]

> You cannot transfer money out of country legally

True. It used to be 50k limit per year. Now because many bureaucratic procedures by banks, it might as well as be zero since you have go to the bank 10+ times. You're talking from a view of a foreigner. I'm talking from a view of native citizen.

> Money and superficiality have always being huge in China

Not so right now which is what I mentioned.

China bars celebrities from showing off wealth and 'extravagant pleasure' on social media

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-bans-celebs-from-showi...

> there have been recently a huge push back from the goverment about this.

Doesn't mean anything has changed. Just lip service.

> You cannot go beyond China's intranet

Of course I know about VPN. However, The official stance of the Chinese government is that the use of VPNs is prohibited except in strictly defined cases. https://review42.com/resources/are-vpns-legal-in-china/

[Cederfjard]

What do you mean when you say porn is illegal in most places?