You've completely proved my point, which is that in every argument people make bad comparison between the US and China. In every single item here, you greatly stretch either what the US has done to clearly over-exaggerate it, stretch what the CCP has done to under-exaggerate it, or sometimes out-right make a completely false comparison - it's really clear you're not doing it in good faith. Examples:
(1) > If you don think that the NSA is spying on half the western world
If you'd read the Snowden papers, you'd see that the NSA collects metadata on US persons, and can only collect specific (non-meta-)data on those that they submit a warrant for. Completely invalid comparison, not remotely comparable to the CCP requiring all companies to hand over all data of all persons in China non-encrypted.
Bonus points for the "If you don't think" emotional manipulation.
(1b) > the CIA on the other half
Baseless speculation that conveniently fits the position you hold and nothing else.
(2) > When every country develops, they "borrow" from the previously developed countries.
Classic whataboutism. What America did centuries ago has no bearing on what China does now - it's actually far worse now, because we generally have better-developed senses of morals and that stealing is bad. Also, while US citizens might have taken technology from other countries, the CCP government is doing the theft here - and it's outright breaking and entering to do so, too.
(3) > Target and extradite people for "corruption" (real or not), US targets and attempts to extradite people for leaking evidence of war crimes and spying.
Nope, false comparison. In Operation Fox Hunt, the CCP (a) targeted people for merely speaking out about government (b) targeting their families and (c) didn't charge many of the targets with any crime whatsoever. None of those things apply to the US. Thinking that this is even remotely similar to charging someone for espionage and attempting to extradite them using the legal system is actually completely insane; there's no similarities whatsoever to the CCP trying to covertly and illegally coerce citizens to return home for crimes for which they have never been charged by threatening their families.
You just literally didn't make any point at all here. So, to recap for viewers at home: there's no US equivalent to the CCP massacring students with tanks at Tienanmen Square.
(5) > Surprise surprise but the US has its own 50 cent army.
Fine, as a US citizen, I condemn any forms of propaganda taken by my government on my behalf. You're defending yours. Also, uh, any evidence that the US has also hired two million propaganda creators to create several hundred million posts? Barely comparable, but this is the only solid point you've made so far.
(6a) > Yes let us go liberate the enslaved children
You engage in sarcasm because it's clear that you don't have a point. Let me be clear what this point is: the CCP is tyrannical in a way that other governments are not.
(6b) > and sometimes mandatory
Mandatory abortion is more tyranny, not less.
(7) > The unlucky and unarmed populations of Iraq and Afghanistan who are continued to be massacred via drone strike.
Completely insane comparison. You do know that the point of Tienanmen Square was that the people getting massacred were (a) intentionally killed (b) unarmed (c) students (d) peacefully protesting (e) Chinese citizens and (f) the government has enforced a media blackout on it? That's literally the opposite of Iraq/Afghanistan in every single way. Meanwhile, the closest comparison you can make is (a) accidentally killed collateral damage (which is terrible, but not that it's not intentional) from the US hunting people who flew airplanes into the Twin Towers on 9/11, and the targeted people are (b) armed (c) terrorists (d) trying to kill us who are (e) not US Citizens and (f) the US government doesn't enforce a media blackout when they mess up, and calling a few dozen deaths (which are tragic, but all accidental - the result of the military being careless, not the PLA tank operators intentionally running over students) "massacre" is also crazy.
(8) > Assange and Snowden
Insane comparison. Snowden and Assange both leaked classified information that cost the US billions (tens of billions? hundreds?) of dollars of taxpayer money to develop and resulted in lives lost, and whose significance was military and intelligence capabilities (yeah, Snowden wasn't about telling the people about a spying program - if it was, he would have only leaked docs about the NSA spying on American citizens in particular, but you know what? 99% of the material leaked had nothing to do with spying on American citizens at all, and was just straight-up sending classified military+defense information to other countries). Not even remotely comparable to the CCP suppressing information on the military massacring peacefully protesting civilians with no defense or strategic value.
(9a) > What is Guantanamo Bay?
A place that (a) many Americans actively protest (unlike Xinjiang, which it seems like is constantly defended by Chinese nationals) (b) holding a few thousand people (instead of a few million) that (c) are suspected of committing terrorism (not "innocents").
(9b) How many millions of blacks are locked up in American prison for no reason other than their skin color and a sham charge of jaywalking or dug possession.
Also a completely insane comparison. Bringing up skin color is crazy - US judges do not, as a rule, discriminate based on skin color. Prisons in the US aren't even remotely comparable to the labor camps in Xinjiang, and even though the American justice system has problems (that are being protested by its citizens, as opposed to being defended, like Chinese nationals defend Xinjiang), every person taken in has a public trial with a charge that's on the books - as opposed to the CCP disappearing citizens with no trial, and no charge other than just being Uyghur, and denying that the places they're being held exist in the first place.
(10a) > The US literarily strong arming its states for trying to boycott Israel.
This is one of the only even partially-valid points you have made here. "Partially" because while it's very bad for the federal government to pass laws on the states about this matter, it's also categorically different for the federal government to restrict what state governments can do for geopolitical reasons, than it is for the CCP to financially blackmail foreign companies for expressing a very sane and reasonable position: that Taiwan is a separate country from China.
(10b) > The US enacting regime change when the wrong person was democratically elected...
This isn't even relevant to anything here. You're just throwing it out to try to add chaff to your arguments.
(11) > ???????
This is the only fully-valid point/comparison you've made in this entire post. I misspoke - I meant to say "CCP planning to invade Taiwan..." and it was because I perceived that the old leadership of China (before the cultural revolution) had fled there - but I can't find any evidence of that, so I'm withdrawing this claim.
> To find this level of ignorance here is semi-astounding.
Pure emotional manipulation.
> Propaganda works, and that post is proof of it.
What are some of the characteristics of propaganda? Assertions of vague or unknown truths (1b, 5, 10b), exaggerate the facts (1, 2, 3, 7, 9b), misdirection of attention (6, 10b), emotional manipulation (6a, 9a, 9b, last sentence), wild comparisons that aren't valid (1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10a). I made the points that I had in good faith, using sound logic, and withdrew the one that I realized was wrong (11).
throw10920|4 years ago
(1) > If you don think that the NSA is spying on half the western world
If you'd read the Snowden papers, you'd see that the NSA collects metadata on US persons, and can only collect specific (non-meta-)data on those that they submit a warrant for. Completely invalid comparison, not remotely comparable to the CCP requiring all companies to hand over all data of all persons in China non-encrypted.
Bonus points for the "If you don't think" emotional manipulation.
(1b) > the CIA on the other half
Baseless speculation that conveniently fits the position you hold and nothing else.
(2) > When every country develops, they "borrow" from the previously developed countries.
Classic whataboutism. What America did centuries ago has no bearing on what China does now - it's actually far worse now, because we generally have better-developed senses of morals and that stealing is bad. Also, while US citizens might have taken technology from other countries, the CCP government is doing the theft here - and it's outright breaking and entering to do so, too.
(3) > Target and extradite people for "corruption" (real or not), US targets and attempts to extradite people for leaking evidence of war crimes and spying.
Nope, false comparison. In Operation Fox Hunt, the CCP (a) targeted people for merely speaking out about government (b) targeting their families and (c) didn't charge many of the targets with any crime whatsoever. None of those things apply to the US. Thinking that this is even remotely similar to charging someone for espionage and attempting to extradite them using the legal system is actually completely insane; there's no similarities whatsoever to the CCP trying to covertly and illegally coerce citizens to return home for crimes for which they have never been charged by threatening their families.
(4) > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
You just literally didn't make any point at all here. So, to recap for viewers at home: there's no US equivalent to the CCP massacring students with tanks at Tienanmen Square.
(5) > Surprise surprise but the US has its own 50 cent army.
Fine, as a US citizen, I condemn any forms of propaganda taken by my government on my behalf. You're defending yours. Also, uh, any evidence that the US has also hired two million propaganda creators to create several hundred million posts? Barely comparable, but this is the only solid point you've made so far.
(6a) > Yes let us go liberate the enslaved children
You engage in sarcasm because it's clear that you don't have a point. Let me be clear what this point is: the CCP is tyrannical in a way that other governments are not.
(6b) > and sometimes mandatory
Mandatory abortion is more tyranny, not less.
(7) > The unlucky and unarmed populations of Iraq and Afghanistan who are continued to be massacred via drone strike.
Completely insane comparison. You do know that the point of Tienanmen Square was that the people getting massacred were (a) intentionally killed (b) unarmed (c) students (d) peacefully protesting (e) Chinese citizens and (f) the government has enforced a media blackout on it? That's literally the opposite of Iraq/Afghanistan in every single way. Meanwhile, the closest comparison you can make is (a) accidentally killed collateral damage (which is terrible, but not that it's not intentional) from the US hunting people who flew airplanes into the Twin Towers on 9/11, and the targeted people are (b) armed (c) terrorists (d) trying to kill us who are (e) not US Citizens and (f) the US government doesn't enforce a media blackout when they mess up, and calling a few dozen deaths (which are tragic, but all accidental - the result of the military being careless, not the PLA tank operators intentionally running over students) "massacre" is also crazy.
(8) > Assange and Snowden
Insane comparison. Snowden and Assange both leaked classified information that cost the US billions (tens of billions? hundreds?) of dollars of taxpayer money to develop and resulted in lives lost, and whose significance was military and intelligence capabilities (yeah, Snowden wasn't about telling the people about a spying program - if it was, he would have only leaked docs about the NSA spying on American citizens in particular, but you know what? 99% of the material leaked had nothing to do with spying on American citizens at all, and was just straight-up sending classified military+defense information to other countries). Not even remotely comparable to the CCP suppressing information on the military massacring peacefully protesting civilians with no defense or strategic value.
(9a) > What is Guantanamo Bay?
A place that (a) many Americans actively protest (unlike Xinjiang, which it seems like is constantly defended by Chinese nationals) (b) holding a few thousand people (instead of a few million) that (c) are suspected of committing terrorism (not "innocents").
(9b) How many millions of blacks are locked up in American prison for no reason other than their skin color and a sham charge of jaywalking or dug possession.
Also a completely insane comparison. Bringing up skin color is crazy - US judges do not, as a rule, discriminate based on skin color. Prisons in the US aren't even remotely comparable to the labor camps in Xinjiang, and even though the American justice system has problems (that are being protested by its citizens, as opposed to being defended, like Chinese nationals defend Xinjiang), every person taken in has a public trial with a charge that's on the books - as opposed to the CCP disappearing citizens with no trial, and no charge other than just being Uyghur, and denying that the places they're being held exist in the first place.
(10a) > The US literarily strong arming its states for trying to boycott Israel.
This is one of the only even partially-valid points you have made here. "Partially" because while it's very bad for the federal government to pass laws on the states about this matter, it's also categorically different for the federal government to restrict what state governments can do for geopolitical reasons, than it is for the CCP to financially blackmail foreign companies for expressing a very sane and reasonable position: that Taiwan is a separate country from China.
(10b) > The US enacting regime change when the wrong person was democratically elected...
This isn't even relevant to anything here. You're just throwing it out to try to add chaff to your arguments.
(11) > ???????
This is the only fully-valid point/comparison you've made in this entire post. I misspoke - I meant to say "CCP planning to invade Taiwan..." and it was because I perceived that the old leadership of China (before the cultural revolution) had fled there - but I can't find any evidence of that, so I'm withdrawing this claim.
> To find this level of ignorance here is semi-astounding.
Pure emotional manipulation.
> Propaganda works, and that post is proof of it.
What are some of the characteristics of propaganda? Assertions of vague or unknown truths (1b, 5, 10b), exaggerate the facts (1, 2, 3, 7, 9b), misdirection of attention (6, 10b), emotional manipulation (6a, 9a, 9b, last sentence), wild comparisons that aren't valid (1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10a). I made the points that I had in good faith, using sound logic, and withdrew the one that I realized was wrong (11).
post_from_work|4 years ago
>??????? Huh?
Technically kinda-true? The CCP tried, and failed, to invade Kinmen, which belongs to the Republic of China aka "Taiwan": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Guningtou