[swongel]

Where I'm from (western europe) we have this, but unironically.

Imagine the horror not having to worry over not being able to pay your mortgage or rent whenever your boss or some power tripping middle manager decided they want you to start juggling bowling pins while riding a unicycle while you were hired to develop software.

Won't someone please think of the poor employers? /s

[ericmay]

How are tech salaries in Western Europe compared to the US?

There are pros and cons. How would you hire someone at a startup? Do you specify they can only write code for the website and then if you need their help with something else they just say "not in my job description"? Eventually you'd just get contracts that have laundry lists of vague responsibilities to get around this and it would just wind up like standard terms of service for websites/electronics where people just sign and take the job. Too much money at stake to not do it and for little gain.

[swongel]

We have a justice system based on reasonable interpretation by judges, which is a bit less "strict" literal interpretation of contracts. Mine says "Software development", some collective bargaining agreements have more specific descriptions (to prevent under paying of employees by classifying them as lower salaries jobs).

As a start-up you'd hire contractors which you'd pay a much higher fee for, as these wouldn't have the labor protections of employees.

Salaries for contractors are I guess similar to the US maybe a bit lower, for salaries employees definitely lower than the US (for tech at least).

But then again my rent is cheaper, and my insurances are cheaper too, I get PTO and unlimited sick-days, stuff like that. At the end of the day, if I want to make more money and not have many protections (like in the US) I'd become a contractor. (which does come with some strings attached to prevent employers from hiring normal employees like contractors).

You have a choice over here for both models essentially.

[trixie_]

Funny how in your world the bad manager from your example would be difficult to fire as well.

[swongel]

So? They're employees too, I can handle a bad manager, I can't handle being fired over some bullshit. That manager has a mortgage too, you know?

It's nothing personal, it's business.