I work in the industry and have worked in a fab. Here is some insight.
We are taught that fabs are not treated as factories but as hazardous chemical storage plants. On top of that, we work with high pressure and high power systems.
Fires have accounted for the most damage to fabs over the years; however, this situation is different.
The site is not a fab, it is a ASML manufacturing plant. This plant does not produce chips. It produces parts for the ASML machines. It makes the tables the wafer moves on and the frame the mask moves on.
Downstream effects of this fire will reduce the uptime of the machines and the delivery of promised machines to our customers.
To plug ASML. Speaking as a new grad. If you are in hardware, physics, nanoscience, simulations. ASML is the best company to work at if you want to learn. I get exposure to maybe the most complex engineering system is the world. The scale, complexity, details, and just hardcore technology is mind-blowing. I am plugging ASML because it is not widely know and I would love if fellow engineers had the opportunity to work here. I absolutely love the work I do.
I am currently beginning a PhD in physics (mathematical modeling, simulation on HPC) in Switzerland, and I am afraid that after my PhD, I won't find a job that really pleases me. These last years, I came under the impression that you currently can only find ML driven software engineering jobs (I am exagerating of course), and having done quite a bit of ML and software engineering, I now know that I don't want my future job be like this.
A company like ASML gives me hope. Do you know by chance if there are similar companies (complex engineering, with physics, maths, chemistry, computer science, ...) that are located in Switzerland ?
> Downstream effects of this fire will reduce the uptime of the machines and the delivery of promised machines to our customers.
Given that it is the factory acquired from Berlin Glas in 2020, surely its capacity would only "just" be coming online at ASML and they have pre-existing capacity elsewhere ?
As a person whose first job after graduation was at ASML, and left after 6 months, if you like software I don't think it's the best company to work at.
After working at ASML would you get enough knowledge to start competing company? Or is the job so protected with NDAs that basically you wouldn't be able to translate or use the gained knowledge anywhere else?
I am thinking, for example, when you realise the working conditions are not great or you are paid not enough, do you have any leverage? If ASML has no competition, then do you have any negotiating power?
I've seen some interesting positions from ASML but like many Dutch companies they seem to be office/lab centric. Do you know of any software teams within ASML that are remote friendly?
When I was a grad at a similar tech company, I avoided alluding to it on HN for fear of appearing to be representing the company (after training mentioning this). Are ASML more forgiving?
Doesn't litography use some pretty wild chemicals. Like Chlorine Trifloride? Thing that when burned emits hydrochloric acid and hydrofluoric acid. Aka thing that burns ashes. Again.
I assume making those machines is pretty crazy as well.
At a broader level, this accident again shows how vulnerable the semiconductor supply chain is, and it's not just because of geopolitics. I like the analogy by Willy Shih at HBS - "semiconductor supply chain is like a transcontinental relay race with hidden hurdles".
This might delay new fabs all over the world that needs EUV equipment. That is bad for people living in 2024 but in 2022 it will change nothing for us pesky consumers. So future people i'm sorry :( the silicon shortage didnt end faster.
Like water, food, and electricity, electronics have become an integral part of life. Every single country that can afford to bootstrap their own semiconductor manufacturing infrastructure should be scrambling to do so.
This infrastructure doesn't have to be cutting edge. Even 90s-era tech should be enough to cover a country's basic needs in case of a global collapse or shortage.
It's insane for humanity to continue putting their eggs in one or two baskets.
I think you're leaving a few things off the list. Gasoline, steel, machine shops, chemical plants... by the time you added everything that could lead to crisis if it ran out or stopped working you'd be a proponent of the Juche Idea. ;)
The hard part is what to do with 90s-era tech when times are good? Nobody’s buying that old stuff (hobbyists aside). So then you just run these plants at a loss? I’d hate to be an engineer at one of those places. Seems like very soul-crushing work.
One of the fun parts of working in Silicon Valley is that there's... industrial stuff everywhere. At one office building, not only did we have the usual fire evacuation plan, but we had extra instructions because of one of our neighbors, who had storage tanks with the usual fab chemicals. Yow.
A small bavarian town in the 80's. A summer day in an elementary school which happens to be across a leather-tanning-plant. One of the kids suddenly bursts out "hey look, why do all the trees suddenly turn brown?". The teacher is flabbergasted but wise enough to close all the windows immediately. Outside it looks like autumn is in full blow, while the sirens in the city go off and the road between school and plant fills rapidly with firetrucks, ambulance and police cars...
It later turned out that one container had over-pressure and a chemical escaped trough an outlet... no people were harmed though but every leave in the vicinity
turned completely brown...
Yeah, that's not just in SV. Here in The Netherlands, you might have a neighbor who hosts illegal fireworks in their apartment/house. Some of that (e.g. 'cobra') is akin to having explosives. Which is illegal to have in your house, due to the safety concerns for other people.
This is the best info I could find, linked from a reddit thread.
> Eine automatische Reinigungsanlage sei auf etwa 200 Quadratmetern in Brand geraten.
> According to the fire brigade, only part of the plant was affected by the fire. An automatic cleaning system caught fire on around 200 square meters.
Their statement is that it's too early to assess damage -- but it's enough they need to take a few days to assess the damage itself and impact on production. Also enough that it hit the share price. So, clearly not trivial.
"At this point it is too early to make any statement on the damage or whether the incident will have any impact on the output plan for this year. It will take a few days to conduct a thorough investigation and make a full assessment. "
It's peculiar how many fires and major incidents there have been in European factories, plants, and buildings owned and operated by large European companies the last couple of years.
ASML manufacturing, OVH data center, and even Astra Zeneca's largest vaccine manufacturing site, which is perhaps one of the largest in the world, costing them enormous sums in lost contracts in the early stages of the COVID vaccination effort.
The best question to ask is, who benefits? It seems that more often than not it is a large American company or conglomerate.
China sabotaging ASML profit on to prevent decentralization of chip production from Taiwan and maintain leverage over the US in Taiwan sovereignty struggle.
The timing is so suspicious that it definitely gives weight to that. Like the other sub-poster said, stux'ing a fab to show leverage in a future chip race makes a lot of sense.
Reminds me of Chinese netizen conspiracy theory that US set fire to ASML / Prodrive warehouse in 2019 that delayed EUV delivery to SMIC long enough for Trump admin to pressure Dutch gov to cancel the contract. Plausible more US shenanigans or that PRC is fighting fire with fire. Literally. Conspiracy theories aside, hard to believe stuxnetting semi fabs isn't in the list of options.
It's as close as one can get, with about 200m missing because, I guess, the driver decided nobody would care about the rest of this godforsaken industrial area. Or they got a call at exactly that moment that Google would stop gathering photos to spite the criticism of data protection advocates that was annoying them at the time.
[+] [-] CookiesNCream23|4 years ago|reply
We are taught that fabs are not treated as factories but as hazardous chemical storage plants. On top of that, we work with high pressure and high power systems.
Fires have accounted for the most damage to fabs over the years; however, this situation is different.
The site is not a fab, it is a ASML manufacturing plant. This plant does not produce chips. It produces parts for the ASML machines. It makes the tables the wafer moves on and the frame the mask moves on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH6Urfqt_d4
https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/mask
Downstream effects of this fire will reduce the uptime of the machines and the delivery of promised machines to our customers.
To plug ASML. Speaking as a new grad. If you are in hardware, physics, nanoscience, simulations. ASML is the best company to work at if you want to learn. I get exposure to maybe the most complex engineering system is the world. The scale, complexity, details, and just hardcore technology is mind-blowing. I am plugging ASML because it is not widely know and I would love if fellow engineers had the opportunity to work here. I absolutely love the work I do.
[+] [-] collegeburner|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jokteur|4 years ago|reply
A company like ASML gives me hope. Do you know by chance if there are similar companies (complex engineering, with physics, maths, chemistry, computer science, ...) that are located in Switzerland ?
[+] [-] traceroute66|4 years ago|reply
Given that it is the factory acquired from Berlin Glas in 2020, surely its capacity would only "just" be coming online at ASML and they have pre-existing capacity elsewhere ?
[+] [-] Heliosmaster|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] varispeed|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DoingIsLearning|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thrwyoilarticle|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alexpetralia|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] McBeige|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dathinab|4 years ago|reply
Many things are still unclear including:
- how big the damage is - how long it takes to operate again - how it was possible to happen/how it happend
The linked article basically says the same.
[+] [-] Someone|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Ygg2|4 years ago|reply
I assume making those machines is pretty crazy as well.
[+] [-] pramaanik|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jakuboboza|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jbverschoor|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hda2|4 years ago|reply
This infrastructure doesn't have to be cutting edge. Even 90s-era tech should be enough to cover a country's basic needs in case of a global collapse or shortage.
It's insane for humanity to continue putting their eggs in one or two baskets.
[+] [-] whatshisface|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] comboy|4 years ago|reply
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabricat...
[+] [-] chongli|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] the_duke|4 years ago|reply
Mandatory trade relationsips and closely interconnected supply chains are an important factor in preventing larger wars.
[+] [-] jeswin|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hypertele-Xii|4 years ago|reply
Kinda funny when you consider we literally put all our eggs in exactly two baskets, both on males and females.
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] n-e-w|4 years ago|reply
Is impacting the semi supply chain the hot, new weapon of the US-China tech cold war?
[+] [-] wumpus|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phasersout|4 years ago|reply
It later turned out that one container had over-pressure and a chemical escaped trough an outlet... no people were harmed though but every leave in the vicinity turned completely brown...
[+] [-] Fnoord|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hnburnsy|4 years ago|reply
https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/asml/after-hou...
[+] [-] quickthrowman|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tpmx|4 years ago|reply
https://www.google.com/search?q=AMS:ASML
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] _moof|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] daneel_w|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jazzyjackson|4 years ago|reply
> Eine automatische Reinigungsanlage sei auf etwa 200 Quadratmetern in Brand geraten.
> According to the fire brigade, only part of the plant was affected by the fire. An automatic cleaning system caught fire on around 200 square meters.
https://www-heise-de.translate.goog/news/Brand-bei-ASML-Folg...
[+] [-] n-e-w|4 years ago|reply
"At this point it is too early to make any statement on the damage or whether the incident will have any impact on the output plan for this year. It will take a few days to conduct a thorough investigation and make a full assessment. "
https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-releases/2022/fire-incide...
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] sydthrowaway|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] PHGamer|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Snafu77|4 years ago|reply
ASML manufacturing, OVH data center, and even Astra Zeneca's largest vaccine manufacturing site, which is perhaps one of the largest in the world, costing them enormous sums in lost contracts in the early stages of the COVID vaccination effort.
The best question to ask is, who benefits? It seems that more often than not it is a large American company or conglomerate.
[+] [-] tcskeptic|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] randomopining|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dirtyid|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] keewee7|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] leokennis|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] IAmEveryone|4 years ago|reply
It's as close as one can get, with about 200m missing because, I guess, the driver decided nobody would care about the rest of this godforsaken industrial area. Or they got a call at exactly that moment that Google would stop gathering photos to spite the criticism of data protection advocates that was annoying them at the time.
[+] [-] leokennis|4 years ago|reply