I have thankfully worked in mostly rational companies and been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working. At my last job though I spent more than a year saying repeatedly that I wasn't happy with my project work and that I wanted more pay. Annual review rolls around and they didn't fix it. I had a new job offer in a month and when I put in my notice my manager was shocked. He's a good guy but he was also my boss which means he's only going to pay me enough to stay. Just accept that fact and move on.
Match your notice period to the handover period - I'm sorry but everything about this section is wrong. Nothing you are working on is so important that you can't put it in a good state for someone else to pick up in your absence in two weeks. You stayed for 10 months? I can't tell if you or your employer was the one being strung along.
"Your new role, if you have one arranged, should respect your decision to be professional about your handover period. They’ll wait, don’t worry."
No - The hiring market for developers is red hot right now, no doubt about it, but potential employers are not going to sit around with a position open for months. Potential employers are not going to be impressed at your loyalty to a previous employer. They will think you are wasting their time and will probably be working to put someone else in that position while you dawdle.
The two weeks notice period is the conventional standard and everyone knows what it means. Stick to that and you'll be fine.
There's a typo in the article's headline. It should read:
"How Your Boss Would Like You to Quit"
I've always found the sociology of work fascinating, and how it can vary so much from industry to industry. When I read statements like:
> Your team trusted you and depended on you. It’s unethical to screw them over because they’re not paying you any more.
I wonder what their world view is, and why they think you're screwing them over and not the manager/company screwing them over. I see this often in society where there is a large imbalance of power: The weak turn on the weak rather than turn on those in power.
> Again, it’s unethical!
Leaving the team at short notice is unethical? You may want to look into how such a notion came into place, and who it benefits more.
Similarly, I often call out people at work who start throwing the words "professionalism" or "unprofessional" around. What do they think it means and why do they think that? It is fascinating.
There is some good stuff in the article. While I do believe one should treat the management and company well if they treat you well, I also tell people that they should never forget that if they can drop you at no notice, you don't owe them any more than that. Staying 2 weeks or longer is a courtesy, and not a sign of professionalism.
Just today got an email from a coworker who moved to another company some years ago. Her manager who she got along with very well recently jumped ship to another company, and her life is miserable under the new manager. Even if you have a great manager, always remember that they can (and probably will) leave. Plan your career accordingly.
Sort of. I think everyone should read "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie. I think in any interaction, if you want to maximize your success, you have to approach it from the frame of reference of the person you are talking to. Put yourself in their shoes, and think about what they care about, what they value, and then whatever you want to do, express it to them with reference to their perspective.
This is especially true for hard conversations (like firing someone, or leaving a company, etc etc). Note that understanding and getting into their shoes does not mean bending over backwards to do it their way; you can still do things your way (or find a compromise between the two), but you have to convey that you understand their perspective and (ideally) how what you are doing can be beneficial / neutral for them from that perspective.
Another good source is Coyote Talk vs Giraffe talk (it sounds silly, but I promise it isn't). That one is more focused on personal relationships, but I think much of it can be applied to work interactions too.
Most fighting and animosity in the world is caused by people talking past each other, not engaging in actual constructive dialogue.
> It should read: "How Your Boss Would Like You to Quit"
Touché, yes there's some truth to this. Many of the points in the post were reflections on people leaving my team as I have an order of magnitude more examples of that than me leaving a team. If you're implying there's some kind of zero-sum thing going on here though, I disagree: it can be good for both you and your boss.
> I wonder what their world view is…
I don't quite follow this paragraph, could you rephrase?
> Leaving the team at short notice is unethical?
Ah, no – this is in the "Don’t sabotage, it’s a dick move" section: it's sabotage which is unethical.
This is excellent advice for those working in a rational environment. For those working in an ego-driven environment, not so much. Plan your exit strategy as you would from an abusive spouse. Don't assume good faith on anyone else's part.
In a rational environment if you're leaving "for cause", it shouldn't come as a shock to your employer when you quit, in the same way a bad performance review or firing shouldn't come as a shock to the employee. There should be feedback in both directions, if they're not meeting your career goals or you're not meeting their performance goals.
But as a rule I wouldn't tell my boss I'm actively interviewing until I have an offer in hand. Just like, and for a lot of the same reasons, the company as a rule isn't going to inform under-performing employees that they're actively looking to hire someone to replace them before firing them.
Indeed, I was thinking where are these rational managers where you can discuss things openly. It seems the world of management is full of petty narcissistic control freaks.
I worked in many places including ego-driven, political and/or irrational.
Leaving gracefully has never backfired on me. Actually, the opposite happened. Leaving gracefully has left me with some good friends and has led me to opportunities from people I worked with in the past and have became successful in the meantime.
Additionally, at almost every company I happen to work with somebody that I have known before. Answer yourself, do you really want your ungraceful exit to become a problem at your new company now or in the future? What does it cost you to leave gracefully?
I don’t think it’s good advice even for someone working in a rational environment.
The part about giving ten months notice is terrible. He even says that it was bad for both sides! He was mentally checked out for months and not coming up with long term solutions because he knew he was out of there. Not my supposition - he literally says that.
My past three jobs have all lasted at least a decade. I just don’t agree with much if any of the advice here other than the blatantly obvious things like “don’t sabotage them” lol.
Eh... kind of? Like, I don't disagree that there are reasonable points here, but:
> Quitting should never be a surprise for your boss
> What’s the worst that can happen?
Not a total surprise, but in many environments even hinting that you're looking to leave will... greatly increase the urgency of your search. They might not terminate you outright (or they may), but it's gonna make the rest of your time there a lot less fun. The worst that can happen is that you admit you're thinking about leaving and get escorted out by security. Obviously it depends exactly what we mean by not being a surprise; problems should generally be communicated... perhaps it would be better to say "Your boss should be able to say why you left"?
> Match your notice period to the handover period
I personally think the handover part is a symptom; at least for the kind of work I do, if there was truly that much to hand over something already failed. Process goes in wiki, tasks go in Jira, code goes in version control... sure, there will always be a few things that only you really understood and some in-flight work that's not fully written down in a ticket, but IMO if it takes you even 2 full weeks to exit gracefully then either you messed up or the company messed up (ex. there was no other person to hand off to and they couldn't hire that fast).
> in many environments even hinting that you're looking to leave will... greatly increase the urgency of your search
Just to provide a single anecdote of this, my friend worked as a recruiter at a well known company. If higher ups got proof that you had applied to another job, you would be terminated day of and whisked out of the office by security.
The stories from him and his coworkers of the subterfuge involved in job applications were impressive.
I once gave clear indications that I was considering joining a startup in hopes that the company could start looking for my replacement. I wasn't treated any differently and carried on as usual until I gave my notice.
Much later, after the startup failed I learned that those months of knowing that I'd likely be leaving and there was little they could do about it was a very terrible time for the higher up dev vp/cto/whatever. My team lead was all fine with it. So the lesson I learned is that it's not the thought that counts.
[It was ironic/unfortunate when I came back for a short term contract and got hired-away before completion on accident by a thinly-veiled coding contest.]
Hmm, I hear you on the first point… Perhaps I'm blinkered to roles in tech (to which this post was aimed, but not explicitly enough)?
In my experience at such companies, people certainly aren't walked if they express dissatisfaction in their role – but you're right that this doesn't necessarily transfer onto roles which are less competitive. I will think about how to tighten that piece up: thanks for the feedback.
On the second point, I can only congratulate you if you manage to keep everything so organised and compartmentalised! It's something I've aspired to but always fallen short of.
I think it's really cool that this particular employee had a great quitting experience.
However, this is the worst advice I have ever read. Good experiences should not be translated into advice. Your employer is not your friend. You may be lucky enough to have friends who share the same employer, but at the end of the day you are employed by a business, treat it accordingly.
Here's how I handle quitting in a remote world (as a cold hearted jerk/machine, aka a business). I give my two weeks notice, and start my new job the same day I give notice. I effectively have no real work to do the last two weeks at my current job, and have a nice relaxed onboarding at my new job. At the end of the two weeks I collect two paychecks. Rinse and repeat every 1-2 years to collect a 30-40% raise.
That's an insanely pollyanna take on quitting. What's the worst that could happen? You could get fired for looking for another job. This happens. Most people I know have worked for someone toxic, or worked for a toxic organization.
If you work for nice people and things just don't align, yeah, sure, this approach may be fine, but it's by no means universal.
I think the assumption is getting fired instantly from a toxic organization is probably a good thing. The problem is that a high likelihood of a better outcome (as opposed to ending up living in your car), still isn't a guarantee.
The most risk-averse strategy should still use some of the advice posted here, but concerns like minimizing other people's problems and your own guilt are not worth the dangers.
I have never had this happen to me but I'm always prepared to walk out the door the same day I hand in my 2 week's.
Any personal effects that I'm not using regularly have already snuck home with me during the previous week or two. Documentation I've been meaning to write has at least been attempted to be cleaned up.
Yeh that was my thought, I only got as far as that flow chart. It's missing a path from "your manager hears you out" to "you get fired because they've decided it's better for them if you go now".
And while that may be better in the long term, it's not so good if you want to keep earning while you find your next move.
Ten months notice - Wow, that is WAY too much. If anything that's a strong indication that you or your company failed completely at your duties _prior_ to your resignation. A "professional" would never let themselves or their company be in such a position of utter dependence in the first place. Two weeks notice should always be sufficient for both parties.
FWIW I gave 5 weeks notice at a job a decade ago and immediately regretted it - the last few weeks were beyond awkward as I'd already wrapped up all my projects, spoken to all my colleagues and clients, etc. I was waiting for the job to end but kept getting roped into last minute projects that I could not in good faith contribute to because I was, admittedly, just sitting around waiting for it to be over. Everyone lost.
2 weeks max is optimal and expected for everyone. If you're feeling pressured to give more time to the company after resigning, say no and stick firm to 2 weeks. If they've got actionable work and you're able (i.e. not exclusively employed immediately thereafter), give them the option to hire you as a contractor. If the work is actually valuable, they should have no problem cutting you a check to complete it as a consultant. If not, well they're lying to you and stringing you along to extract any value they can - and you should leave in two weeks if not sooner.
The game in California is "at will employment". I don't know about other industries, but most tech firms will lay you off with 0 days of notice if they no longer need your services, for example, to save money.
On the other hand, loyalty to people may or may not be worthwhile - this very much depends on the people and your experience may be drastically different from everyone else'.
Agreed. Even if you have a contract with x weeks notice period, breaching the contract is a legal move(penalty may vary).
I had a non-standard 1 month notice period in my contract(normal is 2 weeks). I let them know I'm leaving in two weeks. They mentioned the notice period but I held my ground. They folded and 2 weeks was plenty to handover my work.
> Quitting should never be a surprise for your boss
I get the spirit of this. But someone whos in tech on a visa, this is absolutely the worse advice. The fear or retaliation is real, especially in bigger firms where your manager has a lot of say. The moment higher ups have the slightest inkling that you're looking for other jobs, you'll soon get pushed out.
Reasonable (though fairly hackneyed) advice. Until I get to this:
> I let my boss know I was leaving in February, so my commitment to see things through to the end of the year was effectively a 10-month notice period.
This, ironically, was the first sentence in a section entitled "Avoid giving too much notice"
If you can't handoff your work in less than 2 weeks, either you as an employee have failed to properly document and communicate status of what you are doing, or the company culture has failed because it created an environment where someone could not pick up what you were doing and continue it. Why? Replace "quitting" with "suddenly died." Companies that can't recover from stuff like this are poorly run and with bad frontline managers.
Short of being a founder and CEO of a startup who has to leave, and needs to gently hand it over so the company doesn't die, there is no valid reason for 10 months of notice. Hell, that is probably not a good reason.
OP here, yeah I mention the 10 months thing as an example of what not to do – the actual handover of tasks I did in maybe 1–2 months, and that was at a leisurely pace TBH. The first ~9 months we were in a slightly weird limbo unfortunately – that's what I was flagging up as an anti-pattern there.
The author freely admits a 10 month handover was counter productive. But equally 2 weeks is not appropriate for many roles, especially in smaller companies, or where you may be the only employee with a specialist skill.
It sounds like it may be more of a north american phenomenon to walk out of jobs at your own discretion(?). In my experience, people in the UK are observant of contractual notice periods and 3 months is not unusual for someone in a senior position.
It's become a bit of a nonsensical arms race to tie people down to longer and longer notice periods to make it easier to bring someone in who hopefully has a shorter notice period for a convenient handover.
I am the sole programmer and support for a very large companies production system. The company has flagged the problem and has tried to re-write the system for several years but have never managed to retain a coherent programming team long enough to see the project through nor found a suitable replacement in the market.
Luckily for them I am a contractor not an employee but there are definitely grey areas.
People here have been burnt by bad managers and it's honestly sad. If you have a personal relationship with your manager beyond emails and "how was your weekend", there's a good chance they will appreciate your longer notice (not 10 months!) and you'll keep them on your side for the rest of your career. I gave a 2-months notice once, and my manager's manager even helped me find my next role at a different company (which I ended up taking instead of an offer from Facebook).
I can't remember which company it was, but some startup CEO posted on Hacker News a few months ago that they have a proper procedure for "long notices" where they help employees, even if they decide to stay at the end of it. That should be the goal in my opinion.
P.S.: Yes, it can be more tricky in large corporations where the manager isn't independent and their manager is vindictive.
Having spent more time working in toxic environments than non-toxic ones I really appreciate this perspective on managing the difficult decision to exit.
As many commenters have pointed out: When there are no professional relationships you want to preserve for the years (decades!) to come the matter is easily handled with a two week notice and a swift departure before the morning light.
However, when you have been fortunate enough to have worked with great colleagues it is a lot harder to exit the building without damaging your relationship with them.
I've worked with great people a lot. When I make a move they understand that it's best for me. I understand it's best for them. One of the reasons they're great is that they document their work and share knowledge, so if someone leaves the rest of the team can pick up where they left off.
Yes, the company then has the hassle of hiring, but companies need to factor that in and get to it.
It seems almost childish that anyone would take such a move personally.
When you let your manager know you're unhappy then they can also quickly move to hire a replacement and fire you. You don't own a company anything beyond the last paycheck you received. Two weeks notice is the norm and, hey, it's just business. Don't take it personally if an employee leaves.
I always give 2 weeks notice before quitting and make the transition as easy as possible, doing handoff meetings and educating whoever's taking over.
In exchange, I usually get shafted by the employer. In one case they tried to claw back a signing bonus (despite the employment agreement etc not giving them the right to do it - nice) and in another case the abusive studio head walked over and told me to take my shit and leave immediately despite the fact that I was a producer in charge of an entire team and hadn't done any handoff (shocking no one, the latter studio ended up shipping their product 4+ years behind schedule)
So I guess my takeaway is that it's still valuable to be nice if you care about the impact on your teammates, but I don't think your boss deserves it. Especially now when many companies have a policy of not providing references beyond 'yes i can confirm that so-and-so worked here' - the concept of 'burning your bridges' by not being sufficiently deferential to your awful boss doesn't exist.
Heeding this advice would be much more generous than employers typically are, especially in an at-will employment environment. In my experience, employers give zero notice and provide zero assistance helping an employee find a replacement.
I think it depends on the situation. I definitely agree that performance-based firings would tend to be extremely brutal compared to the approach I advocate for here (largely due to the various risks posed by aggrieved employees).
Perhaps I should add that this advice best (only?) applies if you're leaving a company in a sort of "natural parting of ways" kind of situation? Thanks for the feedback.
In my experience an article about how to quit like a boss would involve making a ton of bad decisions, then jumping ship, using your "leadership experience" at the smoking crater you left behind as a way to get a higher paying position somewhere else. There may be a better way, but that's the only way I've ever seen a boss actually quit.
I don't get this advice. At least in tech it is understood that everyone has their eye open for the next big opportunity. If one comes along, I'm not going to hesitate to take it. It doesn't have to mean that there's a problem in my current role that I need to address with my manager. Sometimes you simply know that it is time to leave and try something new. If my current company is "surprised" by my decision and unprepared for my absence then that's on them.
I think the very first sentiment is the most universal one:
Your quitting should not be a surprise to your manager.
Just like year-end review (for those companies that have it) should not be a surprise to the employee - feedback should be continuous. Similarly, if your (rational, to another posters point) manager's reaction is one of complete shock and surprise, it may be a sign you two weren't communicating sufficiently and planned/discussed your goals/expectations/challenges/direction/etc.
The assumption here is that the employee leaving the company was due to some problems that could not be solved after careful discussion with the manager, skip-level etc. But leaving a company can also happen because another company offers you 50% more money or a different role, or you just feel like changing.
For any employee, including managers, directors and up—there is only one thing to remember: when the company intends to let you go, they don't ask for your opinion. Two-week notice is professional and more than enough.
Yes! Good point: the manager needs to create the forum for those conversations to happen but the report still needs to take it on themselves to have that sometimes-awkward conversation.
I'm glad that things worked out for the author but this is just generally not great advice for most people.
As nice as your manager is, even if they have your best interests in mind, they ultimately answer to someone else. And that means that even if they don't want to, they can f*k you over with minimal notice anyways. There's a power imbalance there.
Certainly don't be a dick about leaving and burn a ton of bridges... but the standard 2 weeks with professional and minimal responses is the way to go.
[+] [-] oramit|4 years ago|reply
I have thankfully worked in mostly rational companies and been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working. At my last job though I spent more than a year saying repeatedly that I wasn't happy with my project work and that I wanted more pay. Annual review rolls around and they didn't fix it. I had a new job offer in a month and when I put in my notice my manager was shocked. He's a good guy but he was also my boss which means he's only going to pay me enough to stay. Just accept that fact and move on.
Match your notice period to the handover period - I'm sorry but everything about this section is wrong. Nothing you are working on is so important that you can't put it in a good state for someone else to pick up in your absence in two weeks. You stayed for 10 months? I can't tell if you or your employer was the one being strung along.
"Your new role, if you have one arranged, should respect your decision to be professional about your handover period. They’ll wait, don’t worry."
No - The hiring market for developers is red hot right now, no doubt about it, but potential employers are not going to sit around with a position open for months. Potential employers are not going to be impressed at your loyalty to a previous employer. They will think you are wasting their time and will probably be working to put someone else in that position while you dawdle.
The two weeks notice period is the conventional standard and everyone knows what it means. Stick to that and you'll be fine.
[+] [-] BeetleB|4 years ago|reply
"How Your Boss Would Like You to Quit"
I've always found the sociology of work fascinating, and how it can vary so much from industry to industry. When I read statements like:
> Your team trusted you and depended on you. It’s unethical to screw them over because they’re not paying you any more.
I wonder what their world view is, and why they think you're screwing them over and not the manager/company screwing them over. I see this often in society where there is a large imbalance of power: The weak turn on the weak rather than turn on those in power.
> Again, it’s unethical!
Leaving the team at short notice is unethical? You may want to look into how such a notion came into place, and who it benefits more.
Similarly, I often call out people at work who start throwing the words "professionalism" or "unprofessional" around. What do they think it means and why do they think that? It is fascinating.
There is some good stuff in the article. While I do believe one should treat the management and company well if they treat you well, I also tell people that they should never forget that if they can drop you at no notice, you don't owe them any more than that. Staying 2 weeks or longer is a courtesy, and not a sign of professionalism.
Just today got an email from a coworker who moved to another company some years ago. Her manager who she got along with very well recently jumped ship to another company, and her life is miserable under the new manager. Even if you have a great manager, always remember that they can (and probably will) leave. Plan your career accordingly.
[+] [-] medvezhenok|4 years ago|reply
This is especially true for hard conversations (like firing someone, or leaving a company, etc etc). Note that understanding and getting into their shoes does not mean bending over backwards to do it their way; you can still do things your way (or find a compromise between the two), but you have to convey that you understand their perspective and (ideally) how what you are doing can be beneficial / neutral for them from that perspective.
Another good source is Coyote Talk vs Giraffe talk (it sounds silly, but I promise it isn't). That one is more focused on personal relationships, but I think much of it can be applied to work interactions too.
Most fighting and animosity in the world is caused by people talking past each other, not engaging in actual constructive dialogue.
[+] [-] jamesbrady|4 years ago|reply
Touché, yes there's some truth to this. Many of the points in the post were reflections on people leaving my team as I have an order of magnitude more examples of that than me leaving a team. If you're implying there's some kind of zero-sum thing going on here though, I disagree: it can be good for both you and your boss.
> I wonder what their world view is…
I don't quite follow this paragraph, could you rephrase?
> Leaving the team at short notice is unethical?
Ah, no – this is in the "Don’t sabotage, it’s a dick move" section: it's sabotage which is unethical.
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] CapitalistCartr|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mds|4 years ago|reply
But as a rule I wouldn't tell my boss I'm actively interviewing until I have an offer in hand. Just like, and for a lot of the same reasons, the company as a rule isn't going to inform under-performing employees that they're actively looking to hire someone to replace them before firing them.
[+] [-] chadcmulligan|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lmilcin|4 years ago|reply
Leaving gracefully has never backfired on me. Actually, the opposite happened. Leaving gracefully has left me with some good friends and has led me to opportunities from people I worked with in the past and have became successful in the meantime.
Additionally, at almost every company I happen to work with somebody that I have known before. Answer yourself, do you really want your ungraceful exit to become a problem at your new company now or in the future? What does it cost you to leave gracefully?
[+] [-] 300bps|4 years ago|reply
The part about giving ten months notice is terrible. He even says that it was bad for both sides! He was mentally checked out for months and not coming up with long term solutions because he knew he was out of there. Not my supposition - he literally says that.
My past three jobs have all lasted at least a decade. I just don’t agree with much if any of the advice here other than the blatantly obvious things like “don’t sabotage them” lol.
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] yjftsjthsd-h|4 years ago|reply
> Quitting should never be a surprise for your boss
> What’s the worst that can happen?
Not a total surprise, but in many environments even hinting that you're looking to leave will... greatly increase the urgency of your search. They might not terminate you outright (or they may), but it's gonna make the rest of your time there a lot less fun. The worst that can happen is that you admit you're thinking about leaving and get escorted out by security. Obviously it depends exactly what we mean by not being a surprise; problems should generally be communicated... perhaps it would be better to say "Your boss should be able to say why you left"?
> Match your notice period to the handover period
I personally think the handover part is a symptom; at least for the kind of work I do, if there was truly that much to hand over something already failed. Process goes in wiki, tasks go in Jira, code goes in version control... sure, there will always be a few things that only you really understood and some in-flight work that's not fully written down in a ticket, but IMO if it takes you even 2 full weeks to exit gracefully then either you messed up or the company messed up (ex. there was no other person to hand off to and they couldn't hire that fast).
[+] [-] lelandfe|4 years ago|reply
Just to provide a single anecdote of this, my friend worked as a recruiter at a well known company. If higher ups got proof that you had applied to another job, you would be terminated day of and whisked out of the office by security.
The stories from him and his coworkers of the subterfuge involved in job applications were impressive.
[+] [-] karmakaze|4 years ago|reply
Much later, after the startup failed I learned that those months of knowing that I'd likely be leaving and there was little they could do about it was a very terrible time for the higher up dev vp/cto/whatever. My team lead was all fine with it. So the lesson I learned is that it's not the thought that counts.
[It was ironic/unfortunate when I came back for a short term contract and got hired-away before completion on accident by a thinly-veiled coding contest.]
[+] [-] ska|4 years ago|reply
Not just say why, but this has been an ongoing discussion between you with attempts to resolve it (assuming everything is working as it should).
[+] [-] jamesbrady|4 years ago|reply
In my experience at such companies, people certainly aren't walked if they express dissatisfaction in their role – but you're right that this doesn't necessarily transfer onto roles which are less competitive. I will think about how to tighten that piece up: thanks for the feedback.
On the second point, I can only congratulate you if you manage to keep everything so organised and compartmentalised! It's something I've aspired to but always fallen short of.
[+] [-] ragnot|4 years ago|reply
Been there 2 years and haven't gotten a raise/promotion? 2 weeks.
Been there 10 years and are bored/didn't get what you want? 2 weeks.
Don't fall over yourself helping the company. Chances are they are going to forget you in 3 months anyway.
[+] [-] froaway4job|4 years ago|reply
However, this is the worst advice I have ever read. Good experiences should not be translated into advice. Your employer is not your friend. You may be lucky enough to have friends who share the same employer, but at the end of the day you are employed by a business, treat it accordingly.
Here's how I handle quitting in a remote world (as a cold hearted jerk/machine, aka a business). I give my two weeks notice, and start my new job the same day I give notice. I effectively have no real work to do the last two weeks at my current job, and have a nice relaxed onboarding at my new job. At the end of the two weeks I collect two paychecks. Rinse and repeat every 1-2 years to collect a 30-40% raise.
[+] [-] p1esk|4 years ago|reply
This is bad advice. Most contracts in US explicitly prohibit this, so you could land in legal troubles if either company ever found out.
[+] [-] thaumasiotes|4 years ago|reply
Where else would advice come from?
[+] [-] ubermonkey|4 years ago|reply
If you work for nice people and things just don't align, yeah, sure, this approach may be fine, but it's by no means universal.
[+] [-] simplestats|4 years ago|reply
The most risk-averse strategy should still use some of the advice posted here, but concerns like minimizing other people's problems and your own guilt are not worth the dangers.
[+] [-] hinkley|4 years ago|reply
Any personal effects that I'm not using regularly have already snuck home with me during the previous week or two. Documentation I've been meaning to write has at least been attempted to be cleaned up.
[+] [-] Nursie|4 years ago|reply
And while that may be better in the long term, it's not so good if you want to keep earning while you find your next move.
[+] [-] perrygeo|4 years ago|reply
FWIW I gave 5 weeks notice at a job a decade ago and immediately regretted it - the last few weeks were beyond awkward as I'd already wrapped up all my projects, spoken to all my colleagues and clients, etc. I was waiting for the job to end but kept getting roped into last minute projects that I could not in good faith contribute to because I was, admittedly, just sitting around waiting for it to be over. Everyone lost.
2 weeks max is optimal and expected for everyone. If you're feeling pressured to give more time to the company after resigning, say no and stick firm to 2 weeks. If they've got actionable work and you're able (i.e. not exclusively employed immediately thereafter), give them the option to hire you as a contractor. If the work is actually valuable, they should have no problem cutting you a check to complete it as a consultant. If not, well they're lying to you and stringing you along to extract any value they can - and you should leave in two weeks if not sooner.
[+] [-] givemeethekeys|4 years ago|reply
The game in California is "at will employment". I don't know about other industries, but most tech firms will lay you off with 0 days of notice if they no longer need your services, for example, to save money.
On the other hand, loyalty to people may or may not be worthwhile - this very much depends on the people and your experience may be drastically different from everyone else'.
[+] [-] ui4jd73bdj|4 years ago|reply
I had a non-standard 1 month notice period in my contract(normal is 2 weeks). I let them know I'm leaving in two weeks. They mentioned the notice period but I held my ground. They folded and 2 weeks was plenty to handover my work.
[+] [-] ram_rar|4 years ago|reply
I get the spirit of this. But someone whos in tech on a visa, this is absolutely the worse advice. The fear or retaliation is real, especially in bigger firms where your manager has a lot of say. The moment higher ups have the slightest inkling that you're looking for other jobs, you'll soon get pushed out.
[+] [-] jamesbrady|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hodgesrm|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] billyhoffman|4 years ago|reply
> I let my boss know I was leaving in February, so my commitment to see things through to the end of the year was effectively a 10-month notice period.
This, ironically, was the first sentence in a section entitled "Avoid giving too much notice"
If you can't handoff your work in less than 2 weeks, either you as an employee have failed to properly document and communicate status of what you are doing, or the company culture has failed because it created an environment where someone could not pick up what you were doing and continue it. Why? Replace "quitting" with "suddenly died." Companies that can't recover from stuff like this are poorly run and with bad frontline managers.
Short of being a founder and CEO of a startup who has to leave, and needs to gently hand it over so the company doesn't die, there is no valid reason for 10 months of notice. Hell, that is probably not a good reason.
[+] [-] jamesbrady|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tweetle_beetle|4 years ago|reply
It sounds like it may be more of a north american phenomenon to walk out of jobs at your own discretion(?). In my experience, people in the UK are observant of contractual notice periods and 3 months is not unusual for someone in a senior position.
It's become a bit of a nonsensical arms race to tie people down to longer and longer notice periods to make it easier to bring someone in who hopefully has a shorter notice period for a convenient handover.
[+] [-] boznz|4 years ago|reply
Luckily for them I am a contractor not an employee but there are definitely grey areas.
[+] [-] rsstack|4 years ago|reply
I can't remember which company it was, but some startup CEO posted on Hacker News a few months ago that they have a proper procedure for "long notices" where they help employees, even if they decide to stay at the end of it. That should be the goal in my opinion.
P.S.: Yes, it can be more tricky in large corporations where the manager isn't independent and their manager is vindictive.
[+] [-] orangesite|4 years ago|reply
As many commenters have pointed out: When there are no professional relationships you want to preserve for the years (decades!) to come the matter is easily handled with a two week notice and a swift departure before the morning light.
However, when you have been fortunate enough to have worked with great colleagues it is a lot harder to exit the building without damaging your relationship with them.
[+] [-] Nursie|4 years ago|reply
I've worked with great people a lot. When I make a move they understand that it's best for me. I understand it's best for them. One of the reasons they're great is that they document their work and share knowledge, so if someone leaves the rest of the team can pick up where they left off.
Yes, the company then has the hassle of hiring, but companies need to factor that in and get to it.
It seems almost childish that anyone would take such a move personally.
[+] [-] sys_64738|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kevingadd|4 years ago|reply
In exchange, I usually get shafted by the employer. In one case they tried to claw back a signing bonus (despite the employment agreement etc not giving them the right to do it - nice) and in another case the abusive studio head walked over and told me to take my shit and leave immediately despite the fact that I was a producer in charge of an entire team and hadn't done any handoff (shocking no one, the latter studio ended up shipping their product 4+ years behind schedule)
So I guess my takeaway is that it's still valuable to be nice if you care about the impact on your teammates, but I don't think your boss deserves it. Especially now when many companies have a policy of not providing references beyond 'yes i can confirm that so-and-so worked here' - the concept of 'burning your bridges' by not being sufficiently deferential to your awful boss doesn't exist.
[+] [-] cosmotic|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jamesbrady|4 years ago|reply
Perhaps I should add that this advice best (only?) applies if you're leaving a company in a sort of "natural parting of ways" kind of situation? Thanks for the feedback.
[+] [-] karaterobot|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paxys|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NikolaNovak|4 years ago|reply
Your quitting should not be a surprise to your manager.
Just like year-end review (for those companies that have it) should not be a surprise to the employee - feedback should be continuous. Similarly, if your (rational, to another posters point) manager's reaction is one of complete shock and surprise, it may be a sign you two weren't communicating sufficiently and planned/discussed your goals/expectations/challenges/direction/etc.
[+] [-] marbletimes|4 years ago|reply
For any employee, including managers, directors and up—there is only one thing to remember: when the company intends to let you go, they don't ask for your opinion. Two-week notice is professional and more than enough.
[+] [-] jamesbrady|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alfalfasprout|4 years ago|reply
As nice as your manager is, even if they have your best interests in mind, they ultimately answer to someone else. And that means that even if they don't want to, they can f*k you over with minimal notice anyways. There's a power imbalance there.
Certainly don't be a dick about leaving and burn a ton of bridges... but the standard 2 weeks with professional and minimal responses is the way to go.