For most of human history, people have lived in small, local information bubbles which were hard to penetrate with facts from the outside world. We see this manifest as the pre-industrial global patchwork of weird and wonderful religious/spiritual/cultural variety.
Then somehow the world started to join up and information began to seep into local cultures and sweep away a lot of these pre-rational beliefs. And for a while, it seemed like the direction of travel was towards a global system of thought based on a widely distributed factual, rational approach.
But in the last ten years, something seems to have arrested this direction of travel and reinstated local bubbles of thought, insulated from outside challenge.
Cryptoscams are the perfect (but not only) example of a self-sustaining shared consensual delusion. They don’t talk to the outside world. So much so that something like this happens. They are living inside a pre-rational info-bubble which has budded off from reality and floated away on its own wind.
We are not just dealing with scams and fools here. There is an intense current of reality-defiance and cult behaviour. Some people get sucked into the crypto-attractor, but other hallucinations are available.
In the last ten years there has been a significant change in mainstream content from information (what) to personalities (who). A major driver has been the adoption of social media by the mainstream: Uncle Bob pawing his cell phone while on the toilet. Both closed circle SM (checking on your friends and acquaintances) and public facing SM (checking the influencers) have created a whole new, uncontrolled feeding ground to some old vices: Jaleousy and greed. Watching other people's lives and see them spending money and enjoying fineries in an (supposedly) unedited, reality-like format makes a lot of people feel that it must all be real and they should be living that live themselves. Whether it's about wealth, ideologies or any other aspect of lifestyle: Suddenly it's right there, dangled in front of them. This, coupled with the ease of packing in actionable links and buttons, creates a whole new dynamic where people get lured in by shiny things (crypto/NFS/MLM etc) only to get duped. It's a really old phenomenon, though.
I think it's access to broadcast media. When access to broadcast media was heavily gatekept, the official reality bubbles were few and strengthened everywhere. Now everyone has it, there can be far more bubbles.
I also hope that we're in a transitional time as people get used to the new technology. I'm sure that it took people a while to understand how much they should believe newspapers or not when they first came along. And it's laughable to people now that War of The Worlds caused such a sensation when aired on the radio, or the BBC spaghetti harvest april fools was believed by so many.
> But in the last ten years, something seems to have arrested this direction of travel and reinstated local bubbles of thought, insulated from outside challenge.
I agree there is a troubling bubble here. I just don't agree that the bubble in question has anything to do with crypto, as opposed to those getting their jollies dunking on crypto bros.
How many tweets do you have to read before you escape the bubble of OP and learn that the tweet is false...? (By my count, you have to go through 320 HN comments before you will find the first deeply-buried comment pointing out that OP is false and the buyers believed no such thing; this submission is at +501 points, BTW.) Here is a quote from an article published well over a month before OP tweeted: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/amansethi/spicedao-dune...
"Now that they have won the bid, Saqib and his associates must make good on their promise to bring the bible to the people and prove that their fundraising approach was not just a gimmick.
As things stand, Saqib still owns Jodorowsky’s bible but is in the process of transferring ownership to the DAO. Meanwhile, the copyrights for the bible’s contents are held by multiple artists and their estates. Jodorowsky is now 92 years old; Jean Giraud, or Moebius, the legendary French illustrator who did all the storyboards, died in 2012; H.R. Giger, who designed the creepy home planet of the House of Harkonnen, died two years later.
“We can’t just scan it and put it on the internet,” Fang said. But by raising the money as a DAO, Fang said they hoped to show the various estates and stakeholders that there is a massive online interest in making the bible more accessible to the public."
They explicitly acknowledge they do not 'own the IP' and can't just scan it etc and it is positioning for negotiation for the actual IP.
Neal Stephenson explored this in this book Fall; or, Dodge in Hell (And to a lesser extent, Termination Shock). In this depiction, parts of the world; especially red state USA, has succumbed to a post-truth society, made possible through the internet. The narrator implies that we had a limited window in human history where people took a fact-based approach to knowledge, starting with the scientific revolution, and ending with internet circa ~2010.
Examining mainly the pre-truth half, Carl Sagan goes into this in Demon Haunted world, and focuses on remnants that have stuck around, eg UFOs, cults etc.
The "something" you refer to, is the problem of scale. Within a "small, local information bubble", you have enough experience with each source of information to be able to accurately evaluate its reliability. Some in your hunter/gatherer group were reliable, others were not, you knew who was which.
With a large group, at some point you can no longer tell, because each source is a one-time source (or close to it). Plus, the potential profits from compromising that source become so large that, for example, newspapers get bought by corporations, to help mold popular opinion. People cannot tell who they can trust, but they know there's a lot of untrustworthy out there. So, they retreat back into a local bubble.
Whoever is in this person's local bubble, is currently getting a valuable data point as to their trustworthiness. :)
It's the continuing advancement of post-reality into more and more of people's existence. Back twenty years ago when we were all just dipping our toes into the Internet, the majority of our existence was still rooted in traditional society. You might dig around on the Web and find "conspiracy" discussions, but you knew that these topics wouldn't pass the bar for conversation with your family and friends, so you just compartmentalized them. Eventually you either found a way to process the grains of truth in such thoughts (eg the military industrial complex didn't "do" 9/11, but they greatly benefited from it), or you kept on compartmentalizing those thoughts until you forgot about them for whatever reason. Now most of our social interactions are online, and at the very least mediated by online communities. When you run across some outlandish theory, it's easy enough to share it, even if you editorialize a bit to soften the blow- "does anyone think this might be true", "sounds crazy but I'm just passing it on", etc. You don't have to leave the post-reality environment, so it never even occurs to you to temper it down a bit to avoid being the crazy person (coupled with people's lack of physical empathy when communicating through text. I suspect us early Internet citizens are more reflective here, because we learned to overcompensate with left-brained sympathy early on, before pictures supplied a substitute empathy signal). Additionally, most of this communication is done through third party intermediaries whose main metric is to maximize "engagement", and so they'll amplify the signal to those who are receptive, and hide it from those who would shun you because of it.
Furthermore, I characterized our previous existence as "traditional society", but it really wasn't that either. Rather it was a different post-reality as mediated by broadcast media, progressed to be owned by a handful of corporations. This kept us all on the same page and working for common goals, even if the goals weren't necessarily in our own interests (eg widening wealth gap, elective wars). That is what passed for the traditional zeitgeist that we were steeped in, and everyone accepted it because of the massive social proof from The Important People on TV. Now looking back, we can see that the traditional zeitgeist was not in our interest either, and so it does not offer a compelling focus point to return to. And so we're just kind of lost and rudderless, looking for new directions to suspend our disbelief for.
> in the last ten years, something seems to have arrested this direction of travel and reinstated local bubbles of thought, insulated from outside challenge.
I think a lot about the issues you have touched on here. What you refer to as, "reality-defiance", I call, "knowledge immunity".
Long story short, by my estimation what has "arrested this direction of travel" and "reinstated local bubbles of thought" is fear, the mind killer, and where they've headed, is back into superstition, global superstition, where they substitute whatever comfortable story, for whatever uncomfortable reality.
I've noticed the same phenomenon. I think it is, at least partly, driven by the collapse of local power structures that the local information bubbles (great phrase, btw!) enabled. Those power structures are built into our genes, and have roots that go back ages. They are fighting back, or at least our innate responses are fighting back. It's tough to run a church or a school or a family, when those under you can reveal your ignorance quickly on their phone. And so the power structures are attempting to exert their own reality. It's what Trump runs on, he pushes a reality that people want to exist, and are willing to let go of actual reality to get it. Not that the phenomenon isn't also seen in the Left, it just is less malignant (for now).
> But in the last ten years, something seems to have arrested this direction of travel and reinstated local bubbles of thought, insulated from outside challenge.
Been going on a lot longer than 10 years. I saw the same thing in the late 90s, and the only reason I didn’t see it earlier than that is that before then I wasn’t really looking.
>But in the last ten years, something seems to have arrested this direction of travel and reinstated local bubbles of thought, insulated from outside challenge.
I've noticed this specifically with covid denial/conspiracy nuts.
Sure, there have always been conspiracy nuts (and some conspiracy theories are later proven not theories at all), but covid-related conspiracies are a different beast altogether in terms of how widespread they got.
There seems to be a personality type that is prone to believing in conspiracy theories of any kind, and the bar or threshold for that kind of personality seems to have lowered all of a sudden -- otherwise normal people that were not particularly conspiracy theory-leaning are way into the craziest covid stuff.
The level of angst involved is also on a whole other level: while in other conspiracy theories the "Enemy" is usually a small evil cabal and the general "blue pill" public is just "misinformed sheep", now suddenly everyone _not a conspiracy nut_ is immediately evil.
> But in the last ten years, something seems to have arrested this direction of travel and reinstated local bubbles of thought, insulated from outside challenge.
My favorite part of this story is that they DAO has actually raised ~$8m, spent $3m on the book (10x the expected auction price), then the "core team" has started paying themselves ~$30k a month[0]. Also, how is this "decentralised" when one person owns over 50% of the voting token?
Qualifications listed for their team include "Bitcoin Class of 2013", not sure if a joke or not? The impression is that this is a bunch of 13 year olds who suddenly got a windfall...
For the sake of accuracy, it appears to me that it is $30k per month total for the core team not each. There is a total maximum operating budget of $50k per month including a maximum of $30k for the core team. When the core team has 4. That is about $8k per month each.
Will be interesting to see how this, as in the whole DAO space, works out. Part of the problem with the ICO craze in 2017* is that the founders got all the money up front without having any obligation to do anything, so the tiny minority of well intentioned ones ended up simply enjoying the money rather than doing something hard like actual work. Seems like this is still a risk here - the founder can string people along for a few months or years until they lose interest, all the while drawing down the money and living rather comfortably.
* The other problem with the ICO craze is of course that the combination of money up-front and no obligations and anonymity meant almost all were simply out-and-out scams.
I made the mistake of diving a bit deeper into the group who bought it and found a proposal where they are talking about literally burning the book they just bought after digitizing it for … reasons I guess [0]
At this point I just hope its some sort of practical joke or whatever because this just seems a bit much.
I think one thing many people are missing is how much of this space is children, by now.
While the past decade has been about adults risking their fiat capital, children are forced to only earn crypto onchain, as they cannot get the bank account or money without bothering their parents. It is less wise to bother their parents. People like you and I who will proselytize about crypto or any particular crypto investment, while also having incentive to assume custody over the money and benefit from it instead.
Whereas in the crypto space natively they can earn and trade and acquire goods and services. Something harder for adults to even notice is possible since the fiat system serves us well enough, so it is an easier frame of reference to only think about crypto as “earn dollars, buy crypto, have more or less dollars later” compared to “earn crypto, trade crypto to have more crypto”.
There is no way to quantify it, but if you lead with this assumption you will find it.
I know children that have a few hundred $ in their joint bank account but $100k in crypto onchain and just waiting till they turn 18 so they can cash out without telling their parents.
As the things they invest in also grow 100x, this is a formidable force of capital, that would represent a cognitive distortion in the markets. So it is no longer just passionate adults that simply never traded before, its teenagers and possibly even Generation Alpha at this point.
A lot of things make a lot more sense with this assumption.
This is, obviously, silly. There are a lot of silly cryptostuff.
Silliness aside though, this highlights a point to me. Methods of organising are (1) very important (2) relatively undiverse (3) hard to create out of whole cloth.
The creation/ascendance of "modern" joint stock companies circa 1600 was (arguably) responsible for some serious revolution. The 90s produced some very interesting examples: GNU, Linux, Wikipedia, WWW... These are "organisations" organised in unconventional ways and they produced results that a conventional non profit, commercial or government organisation could not have produced.
New ways of organising are potentially very powerful.
CryptoBro naivety isn't necessarily terrible for this end. It'll produce a lot of stupid moves, but stupidity and creativity are often neighbors. CryptoBros' typically mercenary and/or ideological tendencies might be more of a hurdle.
Besides laws, norms & regulatory structure, what's the difference between a DAU and a joint stock company?
> Since it is an auction, besides the winning bidder, there was at least another bidder, which makes two of them and is even more perplexing.
I see nothing perplexing about it because this was not an ordinary auction, but an auction with one member being a public DAO, where the amount of money the DAO will bid is thus public.
Let's say the DAO bids $100, but they have $200 in contributions. Someone can then safely bid $190, knowing that the DAO will raise to $200. It's in the agreement for the DAO more or less, and because it's on the blockchain and organized in a public-ish discord server, their cap is absolutely public.
So, who has the motivation to make these known-bad bids? Anyone who profits off the sale being more, and anyone who just doesn't like crypto-techbros and wants them to lose more money than they would otherwise.
I think the use of DAOs for auctions is quite funny for this reason. A private company that kept the total contribution amount private until just after the auction ended would end up with a much more favorable dynamic than this "the amount we can bid is on the blockchain, you already know our move when you bid".
Disclaimer: I know nothing about this specific auction, and may be missing some key detail. This is simply an observation and speculation from a naive bystander
1. I think the winning bidder posted that right away. How terrible it must feel to wonder whether there's anyway to stop payment, cancel, back out, anything.
2. And what luck the runner-up must feel. (Who may now perhaps offer the winner 40k for the book.)
The founders of this DAO are paying themselves >$30,000/month [0] out of the pool to look after an old book and to commission an animated TV series [0] from a company that does music videos and commercials [1].
> “We can’t just scan it and put it on the internet,” Fang said. But by raising the money as a DAO, Fang said they hoped to show the various estates and stakeholders that there is a massive online interest in making the bible more accessible to the public.
I don't know what they're doing, but it seems that they are at least a bit aware that they don't own the rights.
Who exactly are they trying to convince, and about what? I mean they don't just need the rights to the art in the book itself, but they also need to get the movie/TV rights for Dune itself.
Is this really spending €2.6M just to get a foot in the door, to be able to spend, what, another $200M for the actual rights?
But even then, why do they think this DAO is the best way to execute this vision?
They could just go "oh, people are interested in Dune? Ok, let's make a movie, but without involving these DAO people". Oh wait, there already is a Dune series of movies currently being made/in theaters.
I guess, if you think in NFTs all day and truly believe that your JSON receipt is worth anything and gives you legal ownership, stuff like this happens to you in the real world, too.
1. This was a normal auction and not an NFT one. How is a DAO enforced in this case? What happens if the nominated bidder decides to go rogue and bid more or less than the decided cap? What happens if the price of Ethereum drops to the point that the DAO is no longer able to find the 2.6M they need?
2. If this is an auction then there has to be another bidder (I doubt even the people in this DAO are dumb enough to make their initial bid 2.6M). Who was bidding 2.5M against them?
Everyone's favourite Gary Brannon appearing on HN is a pleasant surprise :-) if you're not already familiar with "Citation Needed" or "Two of these people are lying" take a look at their YouTube series
I think I'm beginning to understand the prices of art NFTs: the majory of people simply don't understand that NFTs aren't representing much anything of value. It's even harder to believe that the box is empty when its price was so high.
The non-challan we will make an original series out of it and sell it to a streaming service must be the funniest thing I've read in a long time. cryptobros really are funny if you are not getting scamed by them.
sorry I hate to be that guy but its not non-challan, its nonchalant. I was confused for a minute their by what non-challan meant ... i was thinking tthat maybe it is related to https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/challan
Also worth to understand and remember, from the linked thread: "digitisation does not = preservation. All they’ve done is replace a long term, resource-light asset with a short term and resource-heavy one that doesn’t work in the way the creator intended."
Good grief, they are SO going to get sued if they try to do any of their proposed uses!
(They no more own the rights to "Dune" than you would if you bought a DVD in a second hand shop and decided to start selling copies of it.)
It'd have been a lot cheaper to ignore the NFT nonsense entirely, engage a motion picture rights agency, and pitch direct to Jodorowski and the Herbert estate for permission to use the IP.
To be honest this looks like a very smart marketing strategy to me, making something so dumb that everyone starts talking about it.
This strategy is also used a lot in Tik Tok videos for example: you write the caption with some obvious errors like "your" instead of "you are" and people starts correcting you in the replies making the tik tok algo rank your video higher
Well, not the worst book to spend that much money on. If anyone hasn't seen the documentary Jodorowsky's Dune I highly recommend it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfJi2sfduqk
Its truly one of the wildest stories very few people know about. He (very seriously) planned for it to star: Mick Jagger, Salvador Dali, Orson Welles, and... Jodorowsky's 12 year old son playing Paul. With music by Pink Floyd (post-Dark Side). This was not pie-in-the-sky dreaming; he met with all of these people, and they all agreed. Planning for a 14 hour movie, they ultimately gave up due to the budget being "short by $5M" (adjusted for inflation: ~$15M).
Though by the end of the documentary, you'll definitely arrive at the conclusion that it wouldn't just be another $5M, and the project had so many problems beyond money; it is interesting to think about how Dune (2021)'s budget came in at ~$165M. We missed out on something truly unique for sure; probably an acid-fueled fever dream, but I totally understand why some people have an obsession with the work Jodorowsky put into the adaptation, and would pay to own a piece of that history.
This YouTube video is blocked for me in the US, but for anyone else curious about the book and it’s history:
It not a copy of Dune, but a copy of a book created to show the vision of one of the first (failed) movie adaptations. French director Jodorowsky had an official adaptation of Dune (and had collaborated with Herbert) [0]. The adaptation failed after running out of money. Notable is the scope of the adaptation: 14 hours and millions poured into pre-production.
Subsequently, a documentary [1] was made about this failed adaptation. I think the parent link is to this documentary.
[+] [-] jl6|4 years ago|reply
Then somehow the world started to join up and information began to seep into local cultures and sweep away a lot of these pre-rational beliefs. And for a while, it seemed like the direction of travel was towards a global system of thought based on a widely distributed factual, rational approach.
But in the last ten years, something seems to have arrested this direction of travel and reinstated local bubbles of thought, insulated from outside challenge.
Cryptoscams are the perfect (but not only) example of a self-sustaining shared consensual delusion. They don’t talk to the outside world. So much so that something like this happens. They are living inside a pre-rational info-bubble which has budded off from reality and floated away on its own wind.
We are not just dealing with scams and fools here. There is an intense current of reality-defiance and cult behaviour. Some people get sucked into the crypto-attractor, but other hallucinations are available.
[+] [-] osobo|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kybernetikos|4 years ago|reply
I also hope that we're in a transitional time as people get used to the new technology. I'm sure that it took people a while to understand how much they should believe newspapers or not when they first came along. And it's laughable to people now that War of The Worlds caused such a sensation when aired on the radio, or the BBC spaghetti harvest april fools was believed by so many.
[+] [-] gwern|4 years ago|reply
I agree there is a troubling bubble here. I just don't agree that the bubble in question has anything to do with crypto, as opposed to those getting their jollies dunking on crypto bros.
How many tweets do you have to read before you escape the bubble of OP and learn that the tweet is false...? (By my count, you have to go through 320 HN comments before you will find the first deeply-buried comment pointing out that OP is false and the buyers believed no such thing; this submission is at +501 points, BTW.) Here is a quote from an article published well over a month before OP tweeted: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/amansethi/spicedao-dune...
"Now that they have won the bid, Saqib and his associates must make good on their promise to bring the bible to the people and prove that their fundraising approach was not just a gimmick.
As things stand, Saqib still owns Jodorowsky’s bible but is in the process of transferring ownership to the DAO. Meanwhile, the copyrights for the bible’s contents are held by multiple artists and their estates. Jodorowsky is now 92 years old; Jean Giraud, or Moebius, the legendary French illustrator who did all the storyboards, died in 2012; H.R. Giger, who designed the creepy home planet of the House of Harkonnen, died two years later.
“We can’t just scan it and put it on the internet,” Fang said. But by raising the money as a DAO, Fang said they hoped to show the various estates and stakeholders that there is a massive online interest in making the bible more accessible to the public."
They explicitly acknowledge they do not 'own the IP' and can't just scan it etc and it is positioning for negotiation for the actual IP.
[+] [-] the__alchemist|4 years ago|reply
Examining mainly the pre-truth half, Carl Sagan goes into this in Demon Haunted world, and focuses on remnants that have stuck around, eg UFOs, cults etc.
[+] [-] rossdavidh|4 years ago|reply
With a large group, at some point you can no longer tell, because each source is a one-time source (or close to it). Plus, the potential profits from compromising that source become so large that, for example, newspapers get bought by corporations, to help mold popular opinion. People cannot tell who they can trust, but they know there's a lot of untrustworthy out there. So, they retreat back into a local bubble.
Whoever is in this person's local bubble, is currently getting a valuable data point as to their trustworthiness. :)
[+] [-] mindslight|4 years ago|reply
Furthermore, I characterized our previous existence as "traditional society", but it really wasn't that either. Rather it was a different post-reality as mediated by broadcast media, progressed to be owned by a handful of corporations. This kept us all on the same page and working for common goals, even if the goals weren't necessarily in our own interests (eg widening wealth gap, elective wars). That is what passed for the traditional zeitgeist that we were steeped in, and everyone accepted it because of the massive social proof from The Important People on TV. Now looking back, we can see that the traditional zeitgeist was not in our interest either, and so it does not offer a compelling focus point to return to. And so we're just kind of lost and rudderless, looking for new directions to suspend our disbelief for.
[+] [-] carapace|4 years ago|reply
In brief, what you're describing is the default state of humanity. In colorful language, human civilization is "the war between gangs of hypnotists".
[+] [-] zemo|4 years ago|reply
...you are using one right now
[+] [-] mftb|4 years ago|reply
Long story short, by my estimation what has "arrested this direction of travel" and "reinstated local bubbles of thought" is fear, the mind killer, and where they've headed, is back into superstition, global superstition, where they substitute whatever comfortable story, for whatever uncomfortable reality.
[+] [-] gilbetron|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sgerenser|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ben_w|4 years ago|reply
Been going on a lot longer than 10 years. I saw the same thing in the late 90s, and the only reason I didn’t see it earlier than that is that before then I wasn’t really looking.
[+] [-] lbrito|4 years ago|reply
I've noticed this specifically with covid denial/conspiracy nuts.
Sure, there have always been conspiracy nuts (and some conspiracy theories are later proven not theories at all), but covid-related conspiracies are a different beast altogether in terms of how widespread they got.
There seems to be a personality type that is prone to believing in conspiracy theories of any kind, and the bar or threshold for that kind of personality seems to have lowered all of a sudden -- otherwise normal people that were not particularly conspiracy theory-leaning are way into the craziest covid stuff.
The level of angst involved is also on a whole other level: while in other conspiracy theories the "Enemy" is usually a small evil cabal and the general "blue pill" public is just "misinformed sheep", now suddenly everyone _not a conspiracy nut_ is immediately evil.
[+] [-] thrwn_frthr_awy|4 years ago|reply
Personalized and targeted ads.
[+] [-] terabytest|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] h0nd|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cyanotes|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] camjw|4 years ago|reply
[0] https://snapshot.org/#/dunedao.eth/proposal/0x2038fc240d0e85...
[+] [-] ricardobeat|4 years ago|reply
https://twitter.com/YOJIMBO_KING/media
Qualifications listed for their team include "Bitcoin Class of 2013", not sure if a joke or not? The impression is that this is a bunch of 13 year olds who suddenly got a windfall...
[+] [-] digitaltrees|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] astoor|4 years ago|reply
* The other problem with the ICO craze is of course that the combination of money up-front and no obligations and anonymity meant almost all were simply out-and-out scams.
[+] [-] stnikolauswagne|4 years ago|reply
At this point I just hope its some sort of practical joke or whatever because this just seems a bit much.
[0] https://forum.spicedao.xyz/t/nft-of-the-book-w-proof-of-jpeg...
[+] [-] vmception|4 years ago|reply
While the past decade has been about adults risking their fiat capital, children are forced to only earn crypto onchain, as they cannot get the bank account or money without bothering their parents. It is less wise to bother their parents. People like you and I who will proselytize about crypto or any particular crypto investment, while also having incentive to assume custody over the money and benefit from it instead.
Whereas in the crypto space natively they can earn and trade and acquire goods and services. Something harder for adults to even notice is possible since the fiat system serves us well enough, so it is an easier frame of reference to only think about crypto as “earn dollars, buy crypto, have more or less dollars later” compared to “earn crypto, trade crypto to have more crypto”.
There is no way to quantify it, but if you lead with this assumption you will find it.
I know children that have a few hundred $ in their joint bank account but $100k in crypto onchain and just waiting till they turn 18 so they can cash out without telling their parents.
As the things they invest in also grow 100x, this is a formidable force of capital, that would represent a cognitive distortion in the markets. So it is no longer just passionate adults that simply never traded before, its teenagers and possibly even Generation Alpha at this point.
A lot of things make a lot more sense with this assumption.
Use that information however you please.
[+] [-] netcan|4 years ago|reply
Silliness aside though, this highlights a point to me. Methods of organising are (1) very important (2) relatively undiverse (3) hard to create out of whole cloth.
The creation/ascendance of "modern" joint stock companies circa 1600 was (arguably) responsible for some serious revolution. The 90s produced some very interesting examples: GNU, Linux, Wikipedia, WWW... These are "organisations" organised in unconventional ways and they produced results that a conventional non profit, commercial or government organisation could not have produced.
New ways of organising are potentially very powerful.
CryptoBro naivety isn't necessarily terrible for this end. It'll produce a lot of stupid moves, but stupidity and creativity are often neighbors. CryptoBros' typically mercenary and/or ideological tendencies might be more of a hurdle.
Besides laws, norms & regulatory structure, what's the difference between a DAU and a joint stock company?
[+] [-] jaclaz|4 years ago|reply
It is not really the "Dune" book, but rather its storyboard, more details and a few photos here:
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211122-doomed-dune-s...
[+] [-] TheDong|4 years ago|reply
I see nothing perplexing about it because this was not an ordinary auction, but an auction with one member being a public DAO, where the amount of money the DAO will bid is thus public.
Let's say the DAO bids $100, but they have $200 in contributions. Someone can then safely bid $190, knowing that the DAO will raise to $200. It's in the agreement for the DAO more or less, and because it's on the blockchain and organized in a public-ish discord server, their cap is absolutely public.
So, who has the motivation to make these known-bad bids? Anyone who profits off the sale being more, and anyone who just doesn't like crypto-techbros and wants them to lose more money than they would otherwise.
I think the use of DAOs for auctions is quite funny for this reason. A private company that kept the total contribution amount private until just after the auction ended would end up with a much more favorable dynamic than this "the amount we can bid is on the blockchain, you already know our move when you bid".
Disclaimer: I know nothing about this specific auction, and may be missing some key detail. This is simply an observation and speculation from a naive bystander
[+] [-] o_m|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Arnt|4 years ago|reply
2. And what luck the runner-up must feel. (Who may now perhaps offer the winner 40k for the book.)
[+] [-] __alexs|4 years ago|reply
[0] https://snapshot.org/#/dunedao.eth/proposal/0x2038fc240d0e85... [1] https://robleridgeproductions.com/about/
[+] [-] knorker|4 years ago|reply
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/amansethi/spicedao-dune...
I don't know what they're doing, but it seems that they are at least a bit aware that they don't own the rights.
Who exactly are they trying to convince, and about what? I mean they don't just need the rights to the art in the book itself, but they also need to get the movie/TV rights for Dune itself.
Is this really spending €2.6M just to get a foot in the door, to be able to spend, what, another $200M for the actual rights?
But even then, why do they think this DAO is the best way to execute this vision?
They could just go "oh, people are interested in Dune? Ok, let's make a movie, but without involving these DAO people". Oh wait, there already is a Dune series of movies currently being made/in theaters.
But also: The contents have been on the internet for years, apparently: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipNGBuasYa_WETf7sF6Q9W3S... (from the twitter thread)
[+] [-] WA|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] saulrh|4 years ago|reply
Seems like NFT logic in reverse, lol
[+] [-] whywhywhywhy|4 years ago|reply
Let's not pretend some low quality jpegs in a Google Photos album is an acceptable archive for this work.
[+] [-] xmprt|4 years ago|reply
1. This was a normal auction and not an NFT one. How is a DAO enforced in this case? What happens if the nominated bidder decides to go rogue and bid more or less than the decided cap? What happens if the price of Ethereum drops to the point that the DAO is no longer able to find the 2.6M they need?
2. If this is an auction then there has to be another bidder (I doubt even the people in this DAO are dumb enough to make their initial bid 2.6M). Who was bidding 2.5M against them?
[+] [-] knorker|4 years ago|reply
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/amansethi/spicedao-dune...
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tetrisgm|4 years ago|reply
For context: I also set up a group to bid on the book. Our intent was to spend $100,000. He reached out to offer to join forces.
I mentioned that the goals of the DAO, the use of proceeds, and the general vision were pretty blurry and might not work.
He said he had been in touch with Jodorowsky and Moebius and they're excited to work on an exhibition or such kind of event with him.
When I pointed out that Moebius died in 2012, he paused for a few minutes then said oh I meant his estate.
I don't believe there's been any proof of such communication or plans with the estate yet.
[+] [-] thegregjones|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rhn_mk1|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ngc248|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ivanhoe|4 years ago|reply
"VAT at the rate of 5.5% will be due on the total of the hammer price and fees charged to the buyer."
https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-6345488
[+] [-] DemocracyFTW|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whywhywhywhy|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cstross|4 years ago|reply
(They no more own the rights to "Dune" than you would if you bought a DVD in a second hand shop and decided to start selling copies of it.)
It'd have been a lot cheaper to ignore the NFT nonsense entirely, engage a motion picture rights agency, and pitch direct to Jodorowski and the Herbert estate for permission to use the IP.
[+] [-] remorses|4 years ago|reply
This strategy is also used a lot in Tik Tok videos for example: you write the caption with some obvious errors like "your" instead of "you are" and people starts correcting you in the replies making the tik tok algo rank your video higher
[+] [-] BoardsOfCanada|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 015a|4 years ago|reply
Though by the end of the documentary, you'll definitely arrive at the conclusion that it wouldn't just be another $5M, and the project had so many problems beyond money; it is interesting to think about how Dune (2021)'s budget came in at ~$165M. We missed out on something truly unique for sure; probably an acid-fueled fever dream, but I totally understand why some people have an obsession with the work Jodorowsky put into the adaptation, and would pay to own a piece of that history.
[+] [-] oflannabhra|4 years ago|reply
It not a copy of Dune, but a copy of a book created to show the vision of one of the first (failed) movie adaptations. French director Jodorowsky had an official adaptation of Dune (and had collaborated with Herbert) [0]. The adaptation failed after running out of money. Notable is the scope of the adaptation: 14 hours and millions poured into pre-production.
Subsequently, a documentary [1] was made about this failed adaptation. I think the parent link is to this documentary.
[0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(novel)#Early_stalled_a...
[1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodorowsky's_Dune