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diag | 4 years ago

How exactly do you determine who is a woman though? Because appearances alone don't cut it, and the more you pick things apart, the less you can make any hard lines. Simply put, trans women are women.

discuss

order

leephillips|4 years ago

If the people running the app were determined to screen reliably they would have to require documentation, because anyone can submit any real or synthetic photograph.

You’re mistaken about the lack of “hard lines” distinguishing the sexes, though. The difference between male and female is unambiguous in biology. “Trans women” are, by definition, not women.

torstenvl|4 years ago

> The difference between male and female is unambiguous in biology. “Trans women” are, by definition, not women.

That is emphatically false. There are innumerable biological differences between men as a whole and women as a whole, and while these different factors largely correlate, they do not necessarily fit neatly into one box or the other. Is an XXY individual with a penis but undescended testes and low levels of blood testosterone and few androgen receptors "biologically" male or female? What about an XX individual with ambiguous external genitalia, high circulating testosterone, and a high number of androgen receptors? What do you make of the fact that females with congenital adrenal hyperplasia are far more likely to identify as LGBT? You are oversimplifying the biology.

That said, the right to create an exclusive space is a fundamental constitutional right. En plus, for socially marginalized groups, it is a societal benefit for them to have a space exclusive to them. I support the creators of this social media app.

jandorn|4 years ago

If trans women are women why are you calling them trans?

floatingatoll|4 years ago

Operations engineers are engineers, just as much as other engineers. But when you’re discussing the subgroup (opseng) in specific and whether it’s a member of the overall group (engineers), it’s logical and appropriate in conversational English to refer to the subgroup by specific label, as the comment you’re replying to does.

Women can be sexed at birth as female, male, intersex, neither; women can have genes for XX, XY, XXY, etc; women can have zero or more genitalia; women can have masculine, feminine, androgynous, mixed facial bone structures.

Each of these is a valid subgroup of women which can, if necessary, be described as a subgroup. Normally, just “women” should suffice, but the app linked by this post actively excludes at least one of those subgroups from the label “women”. So it becomes necessary to discuss those subgroups by name, such as “trans women” and “black women”, in order for discourse to occur.

5ESS|4 years ago

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smt88|4 years ago

You are wrong[1][2].

> "Sex can be much more complicated than it at first seems. According to the simple scenario, the presence or absence of a Y chromosome is what counts: with it, you are male, and without it, you are female. But doctors have long known that some people straddle the boundary—their sex chromosomes say one thing, but their gonads (ovaries or testes) or sexual anatomy say another. Parents of children with these kinds of conditions—known as intersex conditions, or differences or disorders of sex development (DSDs)—often face difficult decisions about whether to bring up their child as a boy or a girl. Some researchers now say that as many as 1 person in 100 has some form of DSD."

1. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-07238-8

2. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the...

coolso|4 years ago

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staticman2|4 years ago

Characters in Shakespeare comedies regularly have trouble telling who is male or female. A woman puts on pants and everyone thinks she's male.