[firmnoodle]

I think you may want to revisit your 80%. The vaccine efficacy for sterilization of the virus ended up dropping more quickly than expected and that's even with pre-Delta variants. Look at the Israel data. When you don't understand, I suspect what you are encountering isn't bad faith actors, but more informed people.

[csee]

But here you're talking about efficacy against infection and mild disease, which is not so relevant if we're talking about preventing new strains. New strains are thought to evolve in immunocompromised people with high viral loads over long periods of time, which allows both many mutations to occur as well as for those mutations to become dominant. So I believe the question should be to what extent the vaccines help prevent serious disease in people with comorbidities - and the answer is that they help to a great extent (whether 70% or 90%).

[luckydata]

I seriously doubt it. Show me your "israel data" and tell me how that changes the situation, because I don't believe you and you come with nothing but name calling.

Let's see what you got.