Anyone still there has already counted the cost and decided that jail and fines are insufficient to dissuade them. Just like every other protest movement that you like. Now what?
Also, you’re Canada, not China, so you’re hamstrung by those pesky human rights. Jail and fines is all you can do; you can’t just shoot ‘em all
"""
The Bonus Army was a group of 43,000 demonstrators – made up of 17,000 veterans of the United States in World War I, together with their families and affiliated groups – who gathered in Washington, D.C. in mid-1932 to demand early cash redemption of their service bonus certificates...
Many of the war veterans had been out of work since the beginning of the Great Depression. The World War Adjusted Compensation Act of 1924 had awarded them bonuses in the form of certificates they could not redeem until 1945. Each certificate, issued to a qualified veteran soldier, bore a face value equal to the soldier's promised payment with compound interest. The principal demand of the Bonus Army was the immediate cash payment of their certificates.
On July 28, 1932, U.S. Attorney General William D. Mitchell ordered the veterans removed from all government property. Washington police met with resistance, shot at the protestors, and two veterans were wounded and later died. President Herbert Hoover then ordered the U.S. Army to clear the marchers' campsite. Army Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur commanded a contingent of infantry and cavalry, supported by six tanks. The Bonus Army marchers with their wives and children were driven out, and their shelters and belongings burned.
...
Though the Bonus Army incident did not derail the careers of the military officers involved, it proved politically disastrous for Hoover, and it is considered a contributing factor to his losing the 1932 election in a landslide to Franklin D. Roosevelt.
"""
Regardless of whether you agree with the truckers' methods, it's becoming increasingly difficult to justify the lockdowns and mandates. They've outlived their usefulness and are now doing more economic harm than public health good.
If you disagree, I only request that you ask yourself: If you were suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, would you recognise it?
Ontario hospitalization of people with COVID-19 peaked on January 18th, less than one month ago, at the highest level ever recorded during this pandemic. While perhaps less than half of those hospitalized are there for COVID, nevertheless, those people need to be put in isolation wards. That is, unless you believe that the second-most contagious virus known should be just allowed to course through hospital wards.
Ontario COVID ICU usage peaked on January 24th at the second highest level ever seen during this pandemic. That was only two weeks ago. On Jan 31st Ontario eased their lockdown and there is great uncertainty about whether hospital and ICU admissions are going to start increasing again in the subsequent weeks because we have only a limited understanding of how many people were infected during the Omicron wave.
Baring another mutation that would thrust COVID into the position of the most contagious known virus, or otherwise evade immunity, we are nearing the end of the pandemic phase, where the virus is novel to the general population, and entering an endemic phase. Hospital beds will clear, surgeries will resume and then we can resume a more normal lifestyle. However, if you are a fan of medical services, like I am, we probably need a little bit more time.
> If you were suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, would you recognise it?
If you were suffering from Oppositional Defiant Disorder, would you recognize it? Gaslighting is not a very convincing argument, and that's exactly what it is when you implicitly accuse anyone who disagrees with you of having an invisible psychological problem. It's really is still possible for people to disagree on vaccine and mask mandates, both expressing legitimate reasons and concerns, without resort to such cheap tactics.
> now doing more economic harm than public health good
I measure harm in units other than economies, and so this equation is meaningless to me. It may be strictly true in some sense but I don't understand it as demanding any particular response.
Stockholm syndrome probably isn't real either btw.
Load of bullshit that the air brakes can't be released.
The air horns that they've been blaring at 100-120db (or more) is tied to the air system that supplies the brakes. If they can blare the horn, they've got air pressure to release the brakes.
> Heavy-duty tow trucks can transfer air from their system to the trucks to release the brakes, Allen said. Failing that, they could "cage" the brakes, which involves manually backing the brake off each individual wheel.
"We have all the capabilities on our tow trucks to do it … but I don't think anyone would want to," he said.
That's because many companies who provide heavy towing would be hesitant to risk their relationships with trucking companies, Allen said.
>Some activists have alleged the Ottawa Police Service's treatment of the truck convoy has displayed a double standard, since in November 2020, officers moved in on a group blocking an intersection to protest the force's treatment of Black and Indigenous people within days.
>But Skof said removing the convoy is a more difficult task: "You're talking about pedestrians for one thing, versus vehicles that weigh thousands of pounds."
---
This is the same lesson regarding weapons. Those with tools of force can oppose the government, while those without cannot.
Maybe left-wing groups need to buy a few Freightliners for future protests.
We need to recognize that trucks big and regular sized are tools for force projection, easily potentially used as weapons of lethal force, and need to be banned and severely restricted from protest use.
Yes, this is the simplest, easiest and safest approach. This isn't just an isolated protest. Large portions of the populace (including law enforcement and the military) are either supportive or sympathetic with the goals of the protestors.
Trudeau isn't escalating because he can't. He no longer has popular support for his mandates from the electorate or within his own government.
The reality is it's past time to remove the mandates anyway. Even die-hard laggard California is dropping most of the mandates this Monday. It seems like Trudeau is more worried about the appearance of his 'Authoritah" slipping.
I suspect giving in to them will embolden them to just switch to some other issue to protest. They are there for deeper reasons than the mandates IMO. I think it has to do with inequality and feeling voiceless in the political process.
tl;dr version - Naive "tow all the trucks away" ideas are ~useless in the real world, because towing just one heavy truck out of a tight spot, when the driver is friendly, is very difficult and laborious. At scale, against hostile truck drivers, when the tow truck drivers are (as a social group) quite close to them? Hahahaha. There would be plenty of easy solutions, if the Canadian government was comfortable with Evil Dictator tactics - but for some reason(s) it is not...
My understanding is that more extreme measures like this aren’t possible because the city has been left to deal with it, and all they have are towing trucks and towing contractors. The federal government would have to step in to make tanks or other heavy equipment available.
But at the point a commercial of licensed vehicle is illegally blocking downtown traffic for days, if they want to make it hard to remove there is no reason to gently remove the truck. Hell they can get a few acetylene torches and just start cutting.
Would a plasma cutter be able to permanently destroy the engines in each truck rapidly beyond repairability, so that they’re “disarmed” and can be relocated safely without malicious driver interference? I assume these are going to be taken out by demolition crane anyways, and it would provide a simple and immediate on-site tool to turn them into worthless scrap metal.
I find the freedom convoy thing very fishy, hear me out.
It is a bit suspicious that this is a grassroots movement actually against vaccine mandates, considering the attention and financial support it has been getting... and specially considering how the Canadian government is handling it. Trudeau dissappearing, no real possibility of negotiations, talks or anything... and who is even leading these protests? It seems very strange.
[+] [-] pjc50|4 years ago|reply
The backlash against environmentalist protestors in the UK has resulted in jail time: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/court-jails-star-paralympian-for-...
[+] [-] koenigdavidmj|4 years ago|reply
Also, you’re Canada, not China, so you’re hamstrung by those pesky human rights. Jail and fines is all you can do; you can’t just shoot ‘em all
[+] [-] Jansen333|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] disambiguation|4 years ago|reply
Many of the war veterans had been out of work since the beginning of the Great Depression. The World War Adjusted Compensation Act of 1924 had awarded them bonuses in the form of certificates they could not redeem until 1945. Each certificate, issued to a qualified veteran soldier, bore a face value equal to the soldier's promised payment with compound interest. The principal demand of the Bonus Army was the immediate cash payment of their certificates.
On July 28, 1932, U.S. Attorney General William D. Mitchell ordered the veterans removed from all government property. Washington police met with resistance, shot at the protestors, and two veterans were wounded and later died. President Herbert Hoover then ordered the U.S. Army to clear the marchers' campsite. Army Chief of Staff General Douglas MacArthur commanded a contingent of infantry and cavalry, supported by six tanks. The Bonus Army marchers with their wives and children were driven out, and their shelters and belongings burned.
...
Though the Bonus Army incident did not derail the careers of the military officers involved, it proved politically disastrous for Hoover, and it is considered a contributing factor to his losing the 1932 election in a landslide to Franklin D. Roosevelt. """
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army
[+] [-] cdot2|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 0xbadc0de5|4 years ago|reply
If you disagree, I only request that you ask yourself: If you were suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, would you recognise it?
[+] [-] rssoconnor|4 years ago|reply
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/waterloo-r...
Ontario hospitalization of people with COVID-19 peaked on January 18th, less than one month ago, at the highest level ever recorded during this pandemic. While perhaps less than half of those hospitalized are there for COVID, nevertheless, those people need to be put in isolation wards. That is, unless you believe that the second-most contagious virus known should be just allowed to course through hospital wards.
Ontario COVID ICU usage peaked on January 24th at the second highest level ever seen during this pandemic. That was only two weeks ago. On Jan 31st Ontario eased their lockdown and there is great uncertainty about whether hospital and ICU admissions are going to start increasing again in the subsequent weeks because we have only a limited understanding of how many people were infected during the Omicron wave.
Baring another mutation that would thrust COVID into the position of the most contagious known virus, or otherwise evade immunity, we are nearing the end of the pandemic phase, where the virus is novel to the general population, and entering an endemic phase. Hospital beds will clear, surgeries will resume and then we can resume a more normal lifestyle. However, if you are a fan of medical services, like I am, we probably need a little bit more time.
[+] [-] notacoward|4 years ago|reply
If you were suffering from Oppositional Defiant Disorder, would you recognize it? Gaslighting is not a very convincing argument, and that's exactly what it is when you implicitly accuse anyone who disagrees with you of having an invisible psychological problem. It's really is still possible for people to disagree on vaccine and mask mandates, both expressing legitimate reasons and concerns, without resort to such cheap tactics.
[+] [-] giraffe_lady|4 years ago|reply
I measure harm in units other than economies, and so this equation is meaningless to me. It may be strictly true in some sense but I don't understand it as demanding any particular response.
Stockholm syndrome probably isn't real either btw.
[+] [-] calyth2018|4 years ago|reply
The air horns that they've been blaring at 100-120db (or more) is tied to the air system that supplies the brakes. If they can blare the horn, they've got air pressure to release the brakes.
[+] [-] dcdc123|4 years ago|reply
> Heavy-duty tow trucks can transfer air from their system to the trucks to release the brakes, Allen said. Failing that, they could "cage" the brakes, which involves manually backing the brake off each individual wheel.
"We have all the capabilities on our tow trucks to do it … but I don't think anyone would want to," he said.
That's because many companies who provide heavy towing would be hesitant to risk their relationships with trucking companies, Allen said.
[+] [-] unethical_ban|4 years ago|reply
>But Skof said removing the convoy is a more difficult task: "You're talking about pedestrians for one thing, versus vehicles that weigh thousands of pounds."
---
This is the same lesson regarding weapons. Those with tools of force can oppose the government, while those without cannot.
Maybe left-wing groups need to buy a few Freightliners for future protests.
[+] [-] Justsignedup|4 years ago|reply
But then again it is also showing that perhaps the cops side more with the right-leaning "protests".
[+] [-] quantified|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Tiktaalik|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eddieh|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Ancapistani|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kylehotchkiss|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] axiosgunnar|4 years ago|reply
That... seems counterproductive if you want the trucks gone?
[+] [-] calyth2018|4 years ago|reply
7 day forecast puts it at -20C at night.
They're staying in the cabs at night, and they can blare their horn, if there's fuel.
[+] [-] skybrian|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nsxwolf|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrandish|4 years ago|reply
Trudeau isn't escalating because he can't. He no longer has popular support for his mandates from the electorate or within his own government.
The reality is it's past time to remove the mandates anyway. Even die-hard laggard California is dropping most of the mandates this Monday. It seems like Trudeau is more worried about the appearance of his 'Authoritah" slipping.
[+] [-] voisin|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nominated1|4 years ago|reply
It’s disturbing to see how many here on HN are calling for violent/destructive solutions rather than the one that respects citizens rights.
[+] [-] archagon|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Justsignedup|4 years ago|reply
"If you give me a torch and no libability, and salvage rights, I will guarantee you all the trucks will be removed by the end of the week, for free."
[+] [-] rasz|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] peteradio|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] culopatin|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bell-cot|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] voisin|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] benjamir|4 years ago|reply
Done. Who says the tires have to be treated nicely?
[+] [-] pjc50|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] generj|4 years ago|reply
But at the point a commercial of licensed vehicle is illegally blocking downtown traffic for days, if they want to make it hard to remove there is no reason to gently remove the truck. Hell they can get a few acetylene torches and just start cutting.
[+] [-] floatingatoll|4 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|4 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ComradePhil|4 years ago|reply
It is a bit suspicious that this is a grassroots movement actually against vaccine mandates, considering the attention and financial support it has been getting... and specially considering how the Canadian government is handling it. Trudeau dissappearing, no real possibility of negotiations, talks or anything... and who is even leading these protests? It seems very strange.
Even more strange is the likes of CNN publishing opinion pieces in favor of the protests: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/03/opinions/canada-truckers-...
[+] [-] rasz|4 years ago|reply